HORA VARGA

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HORA VARGA

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:48 pm

Jyotish describes the term HORA in different contexts. Planetary rulers of (roughly) each hour from sunrise used for consideration in bala computation, the hora lagna oriented chart etc. This communication is about the Hora varga, one of the divisional charts also known as V-2 or D-2 which is associated with wealth or sampatti.

For a long time, and even today by far and large, this chart has simply two signs, leo and cancer ruled by sun and moon with the planets all lumped into these two signs based on their location in the kshetra (lagna-rashi) chart (the natal chart) and the gender of the sign and the gender of the two halves within each masculine (odd) and feminine (even) sign. Then, it is mostly left aside though faithfully appears in all printouts etc, like the shy bride who is brought along by the husband to the party celebration and then quietly sits next to her husband without opening her mouth! (I must express my gratitude to Shri K.N. Rao who used a similar analogy for the navamsha chart in his incredibly brilliant writings and which made me roll on the floor laughing at the brilliant analogy presented by this unique great jyotishi! :-))

I think several variants have been suggested by more inclusive jyotishis. The first one I read long ago was in The Astrological Magazine in early 80s if I recall correctly in which alternatives were suggested for hora, trishamsha and drekkana and other vargas. I believe there have been others too.

The bipolar treatment (no pun intended!) that is seen in most printouts (two horas - karka and simha) arises obviously from the reference in (for example, BPHS) where the two horas or groups of moon and sun are mentioned. But then there is also the reference to 'cycles' of the signs (meshadi...).

Odd signs have first half belonging to masculine and second half belonging to feminine signs. The reverse is true for even signs.

There are two ways of dealing with this, one being to run the cycle (aries, taurus, gemini...) for groups of odd signs as a class, and even signs as another cluster. So the order could be:
Aries: Aries, Taurus
Gemini: Gemini, Cancer
Leo: Leo, Virgo
...
Taurus: Taurus, Aries
Cancer: Cancer, Gemini
Virgo: Virgo, Leo

But this looks counter-intuitive and complex and introduces a bias or potential bias -- The first part of any sign then becomes like vargottama with the kshetra and D2 having the same quality. CAVEAT: Vargottama is generally recommended only for V9. I am NOT suggesting that we should extend that to other vargas!

The other series is more attractive (to me, anyway!)
Aries: Aries, Taurus
Taurus: Cancer, Gemini
Gemini: Leo, Virgo
and so on...

If you wish to experiment with this, at your own risk of course (!), my advice would be to not over-apply this and only to focus on the sector related to wealth, sampatti as understood in the worldly sense. At least at first...!

Love, Light, Learning (NOT teaching!),
Rohiniranjan
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:36 am

When I sounded that <caveat>, something kept bothering me! I think I captured my thoughts about vargottama in the varga article I wrote some years ago and published it at one of the publishing sites. I do not wish to post that link because it is against forum rules and I have always tried to be a good net-citizen and like to abide by rules. But one of my personal rules is that NET has limited bandwidth and if we keep copying and pasting large chunks of text in multiple places then we are simply choking the servers and essentially magnetic storage space, somewhere in the cyber-verse that hosts our 'reality' of Internet! It is a long article :-(  My messages tend to be pretty long-winded on internet -- and surprisingly I used to get prizes for "precis-writing" all through my childhood!

Rishi_bhai -- please come to my help and solve my quandry? Is there a library here where I could upload my article? I do not wish to choke up forum space!

If impossible to accommodate, I am not the kind of person to harbour hard-feelings on such a trivial matter! I only share my articles at a few places and people can google those in a jiffy, if they wish and are so inclined.

Love, Light, Learning,

Rohiniranjan

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:30 am

I looked at several charts, of people known to be rich (focusing only on monetary wealth at this time, though many types of 'wealth' have been described including Gnan-sampada/sampati (special knowledge or wealth of knowledge) but being a simple-minded fellow I chose to focus on the obvious and unambiguously or at least widely-accepted!) and charts of those who are/were poor. At some point I will focus on rags to riches and riches to rags individuals too, as time goes on and if I get good results.

Instead of bombarding you with lots of examples, I will just request you to do some fishing of your own and apply the order described in reliable charts that you have. HORAS are simple to eyeball and create due to inherent definition of those. Sign divided into two halves, what could be simpler?

You might run into charts where ascendant or a planet is hovering dangerously close to that troublesome 15 degree point, which determines the boundary of the bipolar duality so beautifully captured in Hora! :-) Lay those aside for now, and who knows if you are lucky, those may give you valuable hints about this other problematical conundrum known as ayanamsha ;-)

So, as the french say, "Allons-y!"

Love, Light, Learning
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Post by RishiRahul » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:54 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:When I sounded that <caveat>, something kept bothering me! I think I captured my thoughts about vargottama in the varga article I wrote some years ago and published it at one of the publishing sites. I do not wish to post that link because it is against forum rules and I have always tried to be a good net-citizen and like to abide by rules. But one of my personal rules is that NET has limited bandwidth and if we keep copying and pasting large chunks of text in multiple places then we are simply choking the servers and essentially magnetic storage space, somewhere in the cyber-verse that hosts our 'reality' of Internet! It is a long article :-(  My messages tend to be pretty long-winded on internet -- and surprisingly I used to get prizes for "precis-writing" all through my childhood!

Rishi_bhai -- please come to my help and solve my quandry? Is there a library here where I could upload my article? I do not wish to choke up forum space!

If impossible to accommodate, I am not the kind of person to harbour hard-feelings on such a trivial matter! I only share my articles at a few places and people can google those in a jiffy, if they wish and are so inclined.

Love, Light, Learning,

Rohiniranjan
Dada,

Sorry I was away for a day!

There is no other place for articles. Also you can use forum space here, or whatever is easier. :)

Rishi
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:12 am

No Problem, Rishi. These are minor problems and can be easily and openly solved with giving the site name and a keyword about the title without giving URLs etc. Assuming that the poster has copyrights or a publicly available book etc. For instance if I wrote, "Dr. B.V. Raman in his Uttarakalamrita translation mentions about attributes of houses" (Fictitious example, just for this posting!), no one would mind that such information was shared in a public forum. I hope?

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Post by RishiRahul » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:15 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:No Problem, Rishi. These are minor problems and can be easily and openly solved with giving the site name and a keyword about the title without giving URLs etc. Assuming that the poster has copyrights or a publicly available book etc. For instance if I wrote, "Dr. B.V. Raman in his Uttarakalamrita translation mentions about attributes of houses" (Fictitious example, just for this posting!), no one would mind that such information was shared in a public forum. I hope?

Love, Light, Learning,

Dada,

If you are not able to copy paste this just post the link.

Rishi
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:18 am

RishiRahul wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:No Problem, Rishi. These are minor problems and can be easily and openly solved with giving the site name and a keyword about the title without giving URLs etc. Assuming that the poster has copyrights or a publicly available book etc. For instance if I wrote, "Dr. B.V. Raman in his Uttarakalamrita translation mentions about attributes of houses" (Fictitious example, just for this posting!), no one would mind that such information was shared in a public forum. I hope?

Love, Light, Learning,

Dada,

If you are not able to copy paste this just post the link.

Rishi
No need to do all that! Library name has been shared, topics too! In today's computer day and age, that should be enough for those who are ready and willing to read!

Spoon-feeding is bad for dental health! Only good before teeth emerge as part of natural development and growth!!


Love, Light, Clarity,

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Post by RishiRahul » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:18 pm

Dear Dada,

I could not find the article on vargottama written by you. &nbsp; &nbsp; I am sure the others would love to read and go through it,, particularly also, in this thread of Hora Vargas, &nbsp;too.

Rishi
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Re: HORA VARGA

Post by RishiRahul » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:25 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:Jyotish describes the term HORA in different contexts. Planetary rulers of (roughly) each hour from sunrise used for consideration in bala computation, the hora lagna oriented chart etc. This communication is about the Hora varga, one of the divisional charts also known as V-2 or D-2 which is associated with wealth or sampatti.

For a long time, and even today by far and large, this chart has simply two signs, leo and cancer ruled by sun and moon with the planets all lumped into these two signs based on their location in the kshetra (lagna-rashi) chart (the natal chart) and the gender of the sign and the gender of the two halves within each masculine (odd) and feminine (even) sign. Then, it is mostly left aside though faithfully appears in all printouts etc, like the shy bride who is brought along by the husband to the party celebration and then quietly sits next to her husband without opening her mouth! (I must express my gratitude to Shri K.N. Rao who used a similar analogy for the navamsha chart in his incredibly brilliant writings and which made me roll on the floor laughing at the brilliant analogy presented by this unique great jyotishi! :-))

I think several variants have been suggested by more inclusive jyotishis. The first one I read long ago was in The Astrological Magazine in early 80s if I recall correctly in which alternatives were suggested for hora, trishamsha and drekkana and other vargas. I believe there have been others too.

The bipolar treatment (no pun intended!) that is seen in most printouts (two horas - karka and simha) arises obviously from the reference in (for example, BPHS) where the two horas or groups of moon and sun are mentioned. But then there is also the reference to 'cycles' of the signs (meshadi...).

Odd signs have first half belonging to masculine and second half belonging to feminine signs. The reverse is true for even signs.

There are two ways of dealing with this, one being to run the cycle (aries, taurus, gemini...) for groups of odd signs as a class, and even signs as another cluster. So the order could be:
Aries: Aries, Taurus
Gemini: Gemini, Cancer
Leo: Leo, Virgo
...
Taurus: Taurus, Aries
Cancer: Cancer, Gemini
Virgo: Virgo, Leo

But this looks counter-intuitive and complex and introduces a bias or potential bias -- The first part of any sign then becomes like vargottama with the kshetra and D2 having the same quality. CAVEAT: Vargottama is generally recommended only for V9. I am NOT suggesting that we should extend that to other vargas!

The other series is more attractive (to me, anyway!)
Aries: Aries, Taurus
Taurus: Cancer, Gemini
Gemini: Leo, Virgo
and so on...

If you wish to experiment with this, at your own risk of course (!), my advice would be to not over-apply this and only to focus on the sector related to wealth, sampatti as understood in the worldly sense. At least at first...!

Love, Light, Learning (NOT teaching!),
Dada,

Regarding this third hora varga.

Few years back, before 2002 I had no knowledge of computers and software etc. &nbsp;and had to chart horoscopes with pen, paper and calculator and it was very laborious thing to do taking an hour for a detailed hora or varshaphal chart (1 to 2 hrs for a chart construction).

But now we have got used to the softawres and the easier ways.

Is there any name or software for this third type hora varga that you have mentioned? For making it simpler :)

Rishi
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Re: HORA VARGA

Post by Rohiniranjan » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:31 pm

RishiRahul wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:Jyotish describes the term HORA in different contexts. Planetary rulers of (roughly) each hour from sunrise used for consideration in bala computation, the hora lagna oriented chart etc. This communication is about the Hora varga, one of the divisional charts also known as V-2 or D-2 which is associated with wealth or sampatti.

For a long time, and even today by far and large, this chart has simply two signs, leo and cancer ruled by sun and moon with the planets all lumped into these two signs based on their location in the kshetra (lagna-rashi) chart (the natal chart) and the gender of the sign and the gender of the two halves within each masculine (odd) and feminine (even) sign. Then, it is mostly left aside though faithfully appears in all printouts etc, like the shy bride who is brought along by the husband to the party celebration and then quietly sits next to her husband without opening her mouth! (I must express my gratitude to Shri K.N. Rao who used a similar analogy for the navamsha chart in his incredibly brilliant writings and which made me roll on the floor laughing at the brilliant analogy presented by this unique great jyotishi! :-))

I think several variants have been suggested by more inclusive jyotishis. The first one I read long ago was in The Astrological Magazine in early 80s if I recall correctly in which alternatives were suggested for hora, trishamsha and drekkana and other vargas. I believe there have been others too.

The bipolar treatment (no pun intended!) that is seen in most printouts (two horas - karka and simha) arises obviously from the reference in (for example, BPHS) where the two horas or groups of moon and sun are mentioned. But then there is also the reference to 'cycles' of the signs (meshadi...).

Odd signs have first half belonging to masculine and second half belonging to feminine signs. The reverse is true for even signs.

There are two ways of dealing with this, one being to run the cycle (aries, taurus, gemini...) for groups of odd signs as a class, and even signs as another cluster. So the order could be:
Aries: Aries, Taurus
Gemini: Gemini, Cancer
Leo: Leo, Virgo
...
Taurus: Taurus, Aries
Cancer: Cancer, Gemini
Virgo: Virgo, Leo

But this looks counter-intuitive and complex and introduces a bias or potential bias -- The first part of any sign then becomes like vargottama with the kshetra and D2 having the same quality. CAVEAT: Vargottama is generally recommended only for V9. I am NOT suggesting that we should extend that to other vargas!

The other series is more attractive (to me, anyway!)
Aries: Aries, Taurus
Taurus: Cancer, Gemini
Gemini: Leo, Virgo
and so on...

If you wish to experiment with this, at your own risk of course (!), my advice would be to not over-apply this and only to focus on the sector related to wealth, sampatti as understood in the worldly sense. At least at first...!

Love, Light, Learning (NOT teaching!),
Dada,

Regarding this third hora varga.

Few years back, before 2002 I had no knowledge of computers and software etc.  and had to chart horoscopes with pen, paper and calculator and it was very laborious thing to do taking an hour for a detailed hora or varshaphal chart (1 to 2 hrs for a chart construction).

But now we have got used to the softawres and the easier ways.

Is there any name or software for this third type hora varga that you have mentioned? For making it simpler :)

Rishi
You mean the one that I am suggesting? MFFMMFFM... series? I am not aware of a sw that uses that.

But the calc is really easy. Line up the rashis, then visualize a sine wave or a snake whose mouth is in aries-masculine hora then it goes down then up then down until its tail rests in pisces-masculine hora.

Love, Light, Clarity,
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:44 pm

Vinay_bhai,

This is the recent one about V2D2 that we were talking about yesterday. Just bringing the thread up so that you do not have to search.

Love, Light, Lemonade!
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:55 pm

RishiRahul wrote:Dear Dada,

I could not find the article on vargottama written by you.     I am sure the others would love to read and go through it,, particularly also, in this thread of Hora Vargas,  too.

Rishi
Sorry Rishi, this may not have received my attention earlier. In searching for this thread for Vinay_bhai, I came upon your post. If you go to scribd.com and do a search on rohiniranjan and varga, you will come up with an article and a primer by me. It should be in one of those, perhaps latter, more likely, than the former. Hope this helps.

Addendum to original post: Vargottama ref. is on page 134 of Jyotish Primer. The document is a bit large so Scribd has disabled 'search for text' I suppose. It seems like some folks have posted duplicates, without my permission there, and I have not checked those for validity of my sharing! So, please pick the one that has my name as the person posting it! Just a caveat! :-)

Peace!

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun May 06, 2012 5:50 pm

Rishi wrote in:

viewtopic.php?t=79388&start=0&postdays= ... highlight=


"Again I present here a chart of a native, having authentic birth data.
8 May 1970 at 19.33 hrs in London.
This native won above a 100 crore rupees in a court case in 2005/6.

Rishi"

********************************************

Using the 'experimental' binary-based Hora chakra distribution (male signs ruled by Sun-male and Moon-female halves, even signs ruled by Moon-female and Sun-male segments in two cycles of 12 signs (aries-taurus; cancer-gemini; leo-virgo... etc)

Taurus Hora rising with saturn, sun, mercury, gemini with mars venus, leo with moon, jupiter in 12th and nodes naturally get suppressed (not 100% sure yet!) in this system due to colocation!

Jupiter in Hora chakra is in 12th and rules the 8th and 11th and is in 12th. Jupiter is also lord of 3rd and 6th in kshetra chakra and represents enemies and efforts. Jupiter dasa ran upto 8 january 2006 and brought the court case and it must have been a difficult and uncertain period I presume. The win came around when saturn dasa started.

Saturn is a yogakaraka in both lagna and hora kundali and is in kendra in both forming a good placement. Interestingly, saturn is also debilited but with cancellation due to association with exalted sun (so much for the much touted Combustion-Yoga!!). This makes it pretty benefic and brought enjoyment through the win during its dasa.

Does this make sense, Rishi?
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Re: HORA VARGA

Post by RishiRahul » Tue May 08, 2012 6:43 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote: The other series is more attractive (to me, anyway!)
Aries: Aries, Taurus
Taurus: Cancer, Gemini
Gemini: Leo, Virgo
and so on...

If you wish to experiment with this, at your own risk of course (!), my advice would be to not over-apply this and only to focus on the sector related to wealth, sampatti as understood in the worldly sense. At least at first...!

Love, Light, Learning (NOT teaching!),
Rohiniranjan wrote:Rishi wrote in:

viewtopic.php?t=79388&start=0&postdays= ... highlight=


"Again I present here a chart of a native, having authentic birth data.
8 May 1970 at 19.33 hrs in London.
This native won above a 100 crore rupees in a court case in 2005/6.

Rishi"

********************************************

Using the 'experimental' binary-based Hora chakra distribution (male signs ruled by Sun-male and Moon-female halves, even signs ruled by Moon-female and Sun-male segments in two cycles of 12 signs (aries-taurus; cancer-gemini; leo-virgo... etc)

Taurus Hora rising with saturn, sun, mercury, gemini with mars venus, leo with moon, jupiter in 12th and nodes naturally get suppressed (not 100% sure yet!) in this system due to colocation!

Jupiter in Hora chakra is in 12th and rules the 8th and 11th and is in 12th. Jupiter is also lord of 3rd and 6th in kshetra chakra and represents enemies and efforts. Jupiter dasa ran upto 8 january 2006 and brought the court case and it must have been a difficult and uncertain period I presume. The win came around when saturn dasa started.

Saturn is a yogakaraka in both lagna and hora kundali and is in kendra in both forming a good placement. Interestingly, saturn is also debilited but with cancellation due to association with exalted sun (so much for the much touted Combustion-Yoga!!). This makes it pretty benefic and brought enjoyment through the win during its dasa.

Does this make sense, Rishi?

Dear Dada,

Great! This matches the incident quite well. This hora seems to work well; not only that, but Venus Mars of the 8th. house(natal) is in the 2nd. house!

The combustion has a meaning too, and is correct in the sense that expenses have tremendousl;y increased as compared to income.

In such a case, I do not think the Sani dasa would be mentally great and will take its toll.

One thing I am not able to understand? How did you construct this chart?

If a planet is in Aries; the first 15 degrees would be aries, and the next taurus.
If we go by this then saturn, sun, mercury is in Aries (natal) beyond 15 degrees; so moves to Tausus hora= understood.

Also understood about Mars and Venus; undersood too that the nodes are at 15 degrees so may not work

How did you compute the lagna and Jupiter's position?
Because, what I understood was that since a planet in Mesha (movable) would be Mesha, Vrisha; simlarly I tried to take planets in Tula.

Thanks,

Rishi
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Re: HORA VARGA

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue May 08, 2012 10:57 pm

The nodes in this system always fall in the same Hora, hence I use those cautiously (nullified effect!). The lagna sphuta is placed exactly the same way using the ARI-TAU/CAN-GEM/LEO-VIR ... horas (for aries, taurus, gemini signs). Perhaps your different ayanamsha is at play, for planets near the 15 degree mark. If you are using Lahiri, mine will be nearly a minute ahead.

See if that is causing the discrepancy. If not the case, I will recast the chart and verify. I generally do not save these charts shared on forums etc.

RR

RishiRahul wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote: The other series is more attractive (to me, anyway!)
Aries: Aries, Taurus
Taurus: Cancer, Gemini
Gemini: Leo, Virgo
and so on...

If you wish to experiment with this, at your own risk of course (!), my advice would be to not over-apply this and only to focus on the sector related to wealth, sampatti as understood in the worldly sense. At least at first...!

Love, Light, Learning (NOT teaching!),
Rohiniranjan wrote:Rishi wrote in:

viewtopic.php?t=79388&start=0&postdays= ... highlight=


"Again I present here a chart of a native, having authentic birth data.
8 May 1970 at 19.33 hrs in London.
This native won above a 100 crore rupees in a court case in 2005/6.

Rishi"

********************************************

Using the 'experimental' binary-based Hora chakra distribution (male signs ruled by Sun-male and Moon-female halves, even signs ruled by Moon-female and Sun-male segments in two cycles of 12 signs (aries-taurus; cancer-gemini; leo-virgo... etc)

Taurus Hora rising with saturn, sun, mercury, gemini with mars venus, leo with moon, jupiter in 12th and nodes naturally get suppressed (not 100% sure yet!) in this system due to colocation!

Jupiter in Hora chakra is in 12th and rules the 8th and 11th and is in 12th. Jupiter is also lord of 3rd and 6th in kshetra chakra and represents enemies and efforts. Jupiter dasa ran upto 8 january 2006 and brought the court case and it must have been a difficult and uncertain period I presume. The win came around when saturn dasa started.

Saturn is a yogakaraka in both lagna and hora kundali and is in kendra in both forming a good placement. Interestingly, saturn is also debilited but with cancellation due to association with exalted sun (so much for the much touted Combustion-Yoga!!). This makes it pretty benefic and brought enjoyment through the win during its dasa.

Does this make sense, Rishi?

Dear Dada,

Great! This matches the incident quite well. This hora seems to work well; not only that, but Venus Mars of the 8th. house(natal) is in the 2nd. house!

The combustion has a meaning too, and is correct in the sense that expenses have tremendousl;y increased as compared to income.

In such a case, I do not think the Sani dasa would be mentally great and will take its toll.

One thing I am not able to understand? How did you construct this chart?

If a planet is in Aries; the first 15 degrees would be aries, and the next taurus.
If we go by this then saturn, sun, mercury is in Aries (natal) beyond 15 degrees; so moves to Tausus hora= understood.

Also understood about Mars and Venus; undersood too that the nodes are at 15 degrees so may not work

How did you compute the lagna and Jupiter's position?
Because, what I understood was that since a planet in Mesha (movable) would be Mesha, Vrisha; simlarly I tried to take planets in Tula.

Thanks,

Rishi
Rohiniranjan
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