Payewacker's Tarot - How much do you want to learn?

A forum for development and investigation of ideas. Not for short questions...then Use Tarot Forum.

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pirbid
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Post by pirbid » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:32 am

:) Wow, guys! This thread is a tutorial in itself. There is a wealth of information here, but I can also see how it could get a little intimidating for a beginner, since they are usually content to remember the upward meanings of the Majors.

It takes a very long time to come to terms with the deck as you two have done. I am sure many read the thread with interest, even if we dare not hobnob it up there with you.

It is great work and I got a lot from this read: thank you, guys!  :smt002
Sunshine from the islands of eternal spring ;)

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cedars
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Post by cedars » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:30 am

It is so deep Pirbid, isn't it? And I suspect we are only scratching the surface.......

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Post by Cascade of Light » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:25 pm

cedars wrote:

Pomegranate, this Mediterranean fruit, which is mainly full of seeds covered in some juicy layer of jelly-like substance, symbolises abundance and fertility according to tarot symbolism.  I guess in the case of the High Priestess it symbolises plenty of knowledge behind the curtain but one has to seek for that knowledge within oneself or by educating oneself in order to have the right of access to get behind that curtain. Why pomegranate to symbolise abundance and no other fruit, I do not know. I could have easily chosen wheat or any other fruit or vegetation, but the tarot designers seem to have chosen the pomegranate. Does it have any historic-religious background deriving from the Old Testament? I don’t know.

Nine of Swords blanket: pictures of red roses, a crescent and various other symbols. I guess we are looking at the red roses here which adorn the whole blanket. Why is this woman, covered with a blanket symbolised by ‘love’, having such a hard time?

The symbolism in tarot is very deep-rooted, but I try not to make that as the backbone of my readings.

My penny's worth :)
What a great thread, thanks for bumping it back up so I read it :)

No mention of The Empress here? The Pomegranetes and fertility? Each seed is a potential new life?
A cascade of light shone down on me, then the angels spoke, and set me free,
Cas x

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cedars
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Post by cedars » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:33 pm

The Empress:

Yes, I conclude the reason why Waite must have chosen pomegranate (which I cherished eating when I was young back home) for fertility is because, as you said Cassie, the whole fruit is made up of numerous seeds which potentially may sprout into several dozen seedlings of pomegranate shoots and hence a tree. The fruit itself is made up of the seeds and we actually eat/chew the seeds in order to enjoy the juicy material in which the seeds are encased.

I was surprised to see this fruit only in recent years in the UK (and so expensive at that) whereas in the Mediterranean and Mid- Eastern countries it is a wonderful summer fruit and much loved by adults and youngsters alike. A.E. Waite must have spent time in the Mediterranean countries to come up with this symbol of fertility.

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pirbid
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Post by pirbid » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:31 am

:) Hello again!

Since I truly see this as a potential tutorial led by Payewacker -who has already offered to be our tutor-, I will break up the questions he poses throughout this thread into smaller threads that we can all follow as a sort of homework.

Since the original thread is on the general Tarot forum, I will post the first right here. If Suzisco or Rutho feel it is better to have it on one of the subforums, like Learn Tarot, feel free to move it and I will look for it next time I log in.

And please, Cassie and all the rest who visit the Tarot forum, don't leave us alone in this. I will regularly post the cards PW mentions so that we can all compare them easily -even those without the RW deck-. I know PW is all for working with any deck you have and will try to include them all. But, since Cedars was surely working with her RW, those are the cards I will post -also my mini Rider allows me to post them more easily than my larger decks-.

I was quite daunted by this thread when I first read it and thought it much above my own experience with the cards. But I admit PW is right: once you take a little time and trouble to really look at those cards, certain traits start popping up before your eyes and giving a sort of 'AHA!' experience. It is not only good fun while you do it, but it also helps me record new meanings for those cards in my mind. So, great exercise for those still memorizing -not really necessary, but you do need to get familiar with the whole deck and that takes time-.

So, as promised, look up my next thread, which I will call 'PW's 9 Majors' and see what you can see... Above all, have fun!   :smt002
Sunshine from the islands of eternal spring ;)

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cedars
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Post by cedars » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:49 am

Pirbid said:
But, since Cedars was surely working with her RW

Pirbid...................... may I whisper something in your ears...........?

Cedars is a 'he'........ I thought you knew that all this time....... hmmmmmmm......  :smt015  :smt015  :smt018

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pirbid
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Post by pirbid » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:02 am

:) OOOPS! Sorry, my mistake. Although I also must remind you that I am a she. I believe I had mentioned it some months ago, but here it is, just in case...

Let's hope no more of us 'change genders' for a while  :smt003  

Cheers!
Sunshine from the islands of eternal spring ;)

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Post by snowdropfaerie » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:47 pm

Hi everyone

Gosh where to begin.

I have been lurking and reading this thread with great interest, for some time. Like someone  suggested, initially I was intimidated by the discussion and felt that some of what I would want to say may be of poor value... but on reflection, I believe that the deck you choose to work with, is the one who's symbolism you most understand, and that any thought is valid.

It was with interest that I read that the Rider Waite deck was full of Freemason symbols, perhaps this explain why I was unable to attune with the deck. Now I have more understanding of those specific symbols and I am grateful for that.

Symbolism within the Tarot seems to have so many influences, perhaps most of what I see is from Mythological, Religious, Pagan and Victorian influences. It is  amazing how themes run through all, however culturally there can be so many differences. This is where a forum like this can highlight these ideas.

For me the Moon is a fascinating subject, and perhaps like the previous discussions is one that I spend much of my time looking at the subject as a whole. ie whether symbolic within the Tarot, the Moon influences within Astrology or a physical and geographical understanding of this satellite. With the latter, it is interesting to recognise the relationship within the Moon cycle to natural events and weather patterns and I sometimes incorperate this within my readings, especially within cards where the Moon appears in various forms and resonates when I am giving a reading. (This is not in a predictive way more as an emotional reflection of the patterns)

I have only recentlly returned to reading the cards again.... my husband was very anti, and I feel at 'peace' once again.  I have done a couple of readings and have had one  'off the wall' feelings in relation to individual cards... such as Cedars alluded to, since I have reintroduced myself to the cards... I am now allowing these feelings a voice and have been surprised by the positive response I have had from the querent. I do not understand where these feelings are from, the card is in front of me but the picture shows me something other than the cards recognised symbolism and/or meaning. I have to get my head around this at some point.

Hope I haven't waffled too much. Once again thank you for adding to and making me qusestion my own knowledge and understanding of the cards.

with all good wishes

snowdrop

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Post by snowdropfaerie » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:11 pm

Sorry I meant to add re The Pomegranate.

It has a basis within Greek mythology, and the story of Persophane, Hades tricked her into eating some of the seeds and this meant that she was unable to escape the underworld completely, having to return for part of the year.

In the ancient & medieval worlds, pomegranates symbolized birth & death, being itself capable of bleeding. It was frequently associated with maidens & maiden-goddesses, for its bloodiness was often identified with the menses of an underworld goddess. It had simultaneous positive & negative associations, as cthonic divinities, & in particular Earthmothers, were the sources of Life & of Death, of Health & of Illness, of Fertility & Infertility.

As an aide I have just been on holiday in the Middle East and they are looking forward to the harvest of the Pomegrante within the next couple of weeks.

Good wishes

Snowdrop

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cedars
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Post by cedars » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:19 am

Thank you for your thoughts and input Snowdropfaerie

I know what you mean when you say the topic was daunting at first.  It had the same impact on me too, but as we go along and undo the coil, it is surprising what we come up with our own thoughts and insights about the different symbols on the cards.

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Payewacker
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Post by Payewacker » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:59 pm

For those who didn't follow this thread, go to page 10, where you will find the links to the subjects discussed!


HeeHee, Hi Guys.

At last, snowdropfaery, your referance to the Pomegranets is well based. The High Priestess is therefore able to move in and out of the Underworld, but is joined at the hip by both worlds.

The Moon card has had a discussion, wich was really lengthy and very interesting, but you would truly need to look for it. I raised the Moon card as subject a long time ago, have a look at the "Death" card. Find the link and consider it's implication!! Then, what about The Tower card. What about the dog, the fox, the Lobster and the winding path? Lastly the Moon and it's cycles. Then more importantly the decending Yods?

MMMMMMM, some points of interest, which few people consider. I'm going to raise a new thread, Specifically regarding Yods, as many readers don't have a cooking clue what it is!!!

Blessed be
Last edited by Payewacker on Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cedars
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Post by cedars » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:02 pm

Heloooooooooooooo Payewacker

Glad to see you back on the boards.
You have been MISSED!

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Payewacker
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Post by Payewacker » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:19 pm

Hi Cedars,

My old saying goes "shit happens", depending on which side of the fan you are, the number of spots may dramatically differ:smt005  :smt005!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blessed be
Do as you want, Harm none!

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pirbid
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Post by pirbid » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:17 pm

:smt006 Welcome back, PW, you tend to mysteriously disappear every once in a while. Btw, I love your twisting of the sayings about shit and fans   :smt003
Sunshine from the islands of eternal spring ;)

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cedars
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Post by cedars » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:19 pm

LOL........ LOL......... LOL......
Oh, plenty of shit hitting the fan...... Oh, you made me laugh there Pirbid :)

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