Very thorough and informative posting Payewacker. Thank you.
As far as yellow goes on crowns, isn’t that supposed to depict the gold colour?
I have the following description for the Yellow colour in terms of the tarot symbolism: sunny, joyful, colour of strength. Enthusiasm, confidence, creativity, discipline, wisdom, logic and ability to overcome ignorance and evil. Whilst I may agree with these definitions of the colour yellow, I somehow fail to see how come the seven of swords is all but yellow in the background in its entirety.
Now coming back to the pillars, freemasonry and the words related to it, I had always been intrigued by the B and J on the High Priestess’s two columns as being Boaz and Jachin. If I may reveal here something that probably is not such a big secret anymore in this time and age, these two words are given as ‘passwords’ for an apprentice freemason on his first level of initiation (Boaz) and then, as he elevates to another level, he is given another password (Jachin) which are both whispered in the ears of the one being initiated as a free mason. It was never explained to us though what these so-called ‘passwords’ meant; they were the secret passwords by which free masons recognised each other. I am not so sure if that is still the case for I have been out of those circles for many, many years now. We were never encouraged to reveal the complete word to a would-be freemason; one pronounced the first syllable and expected the other one to complete the second syllable thus completing the password and establishing recognition. I am sure there are other deeper ways of establishing that recognition of one freemason brother to another.
I do wonder why Waite decided to put the B and J on the columns of the High Priestess. Perhaps this might help. I am no clever bunny; am just copying it from an extract…..
"Jachin and Boaz represent two giant plants or tree whose top is a lotus flower and stem or trunk are that of a palm tree. Solomon created a hybrid plant, essentially. These plants, like other things in the Temple are multi-symbolic, representing more than one thing at the same time.
"In case of the plants or trees, they depict Israel being 'planted' in the new land of Canaan. These two trees, in turn, depict the two kings mostly responsible building the temple, David and Solomon. David is Boaz, Solomon Jachin. This explains the dynastic oracle well known to temple students but not fully understood, 'By his strength he (or the king) will be established.' The word 'strength' can also be translated 'striker.' However it is rendered, it refers to a man of war, David. Jachin refers to making something firm, establishing it; this is Solomon. David is told that the kingdom would be 'established' by his son at a time of 'peace' (a reference to Solomon whose name means peace or pacific).
"The lotus flower was recognized as a love flower anciently and here it signifies God's love for Israel by 'establishing' it in the new land. 'Establishing' applies to the stem of the tree. The name David means 'beloved.' As for Solomon, he had a second name, Jedidiah, which also means beloved. Since the two kings are given credit for founding and establishing Israel as a 'kingdom' they form the legs of the Temple Man. 'Establishing' something is to cause it to stand or stand up (as if one were planting post on the ground) and, hence, the legs. Therefore, Temple Man must be seen as standing.
You are right PW, there are freemasonry emblems, symbols and signs all over the tarot cards of the Rider Waite. While it is an immense and very deep symbolism surrounding all of these, I do wonder sometimes if they are needed for our intuition…….Hmmmmm……. I am pondering on that.
Another thing I would like to add here with regard to the details of these cards, especially the Rider Waite. While I was reading your write up above, I had the Rider Waite Original in front of me to see what you were describing in terms of colours and symbols, and I have to admit I had difficulties seeing ‘details’ in the aforementioned deck. I then picked my second deck, again Rider Waite but the Universal one, and things became a lot clearer in terms of colours and pictorial details, especially the one where you describe the Death card in such detail.
Thank you very much and I do hope my above quotation was not too boring. I only investigated about it after reading your posting.
As ever learning…..
Cedars
Payewacker's Tarot - How much do you want to learn?
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lilanarchy
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I should have written......Cedrs said: As far as yellow goes on crowns, isn’t that supposed to depict the gold colour?
I have the following description for the Yellow colour in terms of the tarot symbolism: sunny, joyful, colour of strength. Enthusiasm, confidence, creativity, discipline, wisdom, logic and ability to overcome ignorance and evil. Whilst I may agree with these definitions of the colour yellow, I somehow fail to see how come the seven of swords is all but yellow in the background in its entirety.
I somehow fail to see how come the seven of swords is all yellow in the background in its entirety.
assuming the seven of swords is not such a positive card.
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Payewacker
- Posts: 1322
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:01 am
To follow the discussions contained in this thread, go to this link;
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 486#259486
Cedars ,
The trees as spoken of, must have been created by means of grafting and would possibly the resemble a lollipop, we do this with roses and fruit trees espscially. If these trees were hybridized, Solomon must have had a good grasp of “Tissue-culturing” or plant cloning, but inserting another plants cells within the nucleus. In other words, he must have been an alchemist and Magician as well. In Magickal grimoires, a lot of references are made to “Key of Solomon the King”
I think we need not, continue further regarding Jachin and Boaz in Freemasonry!
Regarding Yellow, you are right in saying it signifies gold, hence the Crowns, in this posting I bring a bit of another spin on the Crowns.
In the RW, we find that 3 virtues are recognized and dealt with specifically. You find them in the secord set of seven of the major Arcanum, which deals with spiritual progress.
1) Strength—Yellow,
2) Justice—Red,
3) Temperance—White?
These are also the main Virtues adopted by the Christian faith.
Strength, actually refers to inner strength, derived from their close relationship with God and their faith is seen as a pillar of Strength. This mainly referres to strength and faith in God. Whenever there is a reference made to seeing heaven and God, the cities are Gold and God To Gloriuos to see, in the sense that the light will kill you. Also some angels are shimmering gold, ssome other plain scary to see, imagine seeing a being with four wings eight heads and covered with eyes, even his hand palms and probably under his feet? Something interesting about elementals, is that they adopt different body parts from animals when presenting themselves in the triangle. When conjuring them, you have to ask them to make themselves visible in such a form as not to instill fear in participating members of the Coven! So, at times they will appear as a human form or hopefully a single animal form.
Getting back to yellow, as signifying gold, it also signifies God and obviously spirit. When we then consider the crowns etc. we can see that it stands for divine knowledge or appointment as well. In the Bible is a refferance wich goes something like this. Obey the laws of a country as the rulers were appointed by God, notwithstanding Christian or not!
Looking at the Moon, you mentioned that it may also be the Sun. I had a look at the Sun. You will see distinck “heat waves” in the rays of the Sun, not apparent in the Moon. I speculate that the all yellow seven of swords could indicate creative means of winning a battle by not facing the enemy straight on, but with cunning and skill.
I include my description and interpretation for you.
Symbolism:
Man making of: Stealth and bravery
Five hidden swords: Cunning and diplomacy.
Two remaining swords: Desire to be truthful.
Tents: Enemy camp.
Element: Air
Direction: South.
Season: Autumn.
Zodiac: First quarter of Libra and ruled by Justice.
Comparative to the Magician. (Charlatan.)
Card Description.
A man making of with 5 swords hidden under his clothing as a thief. The encampment of the enemy is breached; two swords remain in the ground behind.
Meaning: “Stealth and bravery”.
Where as with the Chariot, meeting enemies face on, charging in to claim victory. This card is all about cunning, diplomacy and actually, underhandedness. This card indicates that you must use a roundabout way in overcoming obstacles. You don’t have the resources to meet them head on, catch them where they are weakest. Infiltrate the established defenses, and then render them harmless.
Upright:
Bravery and stealth. Underhandedness, diplomacy and advice.
In entering unmarked territory, you haven’t got the experience to fight your opposition. You will find it almost impossible to attack them straight on. You need to make use of your intellectual abilities to outsmart your opposition. Rather use a byway to find their weak points and strengthen your own position with their weakness.
Reversed:
Slander. A plan that may fail; annoyances. Overconfidence leading to instability in your affairs
Delayed solution, stagnation, a proposal of love. Declaration.
I now want to mave on a bit and let’s see what the following may bring:
Geometry, God and Tarot.
Forty-seventh Problem of Euclid
Symbol of geometry; of exact science. Passed over with but a few words of ritual, it is Masonically most in¬teresting. It appears on the frontispiece of An¬derson's Constitutions, published in 1723; Street says it is the earliest example of a printed symbol of Freemasonry. It was apparently known to ancient mathematicians long before Pythagoras (Masonically credited as its discoverer) or Eu¬clid, who made of the properties of a right-angled triangle his forty-seventh problem. It is the root of all mathematics used to determine an unknown from two knowns. Given the distance of a moun¬tain and the angle of sight to its top, mathematics may determine its height. Tunnels are driven through mountains from both sides to meet ex¬actly by means of measurements made by the forty-seventh problem. Navigation of the seas depends upon it. In non-Euclidian language, a right angled triangle of 3 feet base and 4 feet height, has a line 5 feet long joining the free ends of the two legs. The square of 3 is 9; the square of 4 is 16; the sum of 9 and 16 is 25; the square root of 25 is 5. All right-angled triangles, regardless of the length of base and upright, follow this law; that the line joining the free ends (the hypotenuse) is the square root of the sum {)f the squares of the two sides. Therefore, if any two of the three are known, the third may be calculated. According to the ritual "it teaches Masons to he general lovers of the arts and sciences". This short description encompasses the study of geometry. The ritual is here not factual. Pythagoras was poor and could hardly have possessed a hecatomb (hundred head of cattle). He was a vegetarian, and reverenced animal life; he would not have killed one cow, let alone a hundred, to "celebrate" his discovery. He may have cried "Eureka", but could hardly have been "raised to the sublime degree of Master Mason," which did not take even an ancient and simple form until centuries after he died.
Geometry
(See Forty-seventh Problem.) "God is always geometrizing," said the ancient philos¬opher. In the Fellowcraft Degree, geometry is a symbol not only of mathematics but of the divine and moral significance of abstract truth.
Guys here we get to a different angle altogether. What would the significance be when considering that God is always geometrizing? We can clearly see references made in the above passage to Pythagoras. Now Pythagoras as we know designed the Tetractus. I don’t want to just blast forth and start discussing the Tetractus. This is a subject all on its own, and needs its own set of research material and derivatives, gleaned from the information we are presented with.
But clearly we know that the Tetractus contains the Tetragrammaton (the unspoken name of God, because it is so Holy). Where do we find reference to this in the ancient myths.
Let us have a look at the suit of Cups, representing the clergy at that time!! Cups is obviously water, and in water we find fish. The myth goes that a salmon swam upriver and landed in a crystal pond. Now as covering or canopy, we had Yggdrasil or the Celtic Tree of life, obviously being fed by the water from this pond. As all trees bear fruit and seed, these then fell into the pond. The salmon ate these fruit and with this, gleaned tremendous wisdom, even regarding the Underworld. Odin in his travels and after losing his one eye, came across this pond. Understandable he was hungry, and I think an imposing figure, even in human form. Now, Odin caught this salmon and ate it. This resulted in him becoming so wise that his new name can never be spoken. He became the God revered above all other Gods!! Or ultimate deity. Now the Tetragrammaton is the name which is given to God only as reference to the ultimate deity as his name may not be spoken, contained within the Pythagorean Tetractus. Thus the belief that eating fish bring about mind power, which as being confessed over the years has actually become a fact. But we also know how good, fish oil tablets, and the omegas extracted, are for us!!
Now the references above” geometry is a symbol not only of mathematics but of the divine and moral significance of abstract truth.” And “God is always geometrizing,"
The questions asked is: “Where do we find abstract truth and geometry?”
“Where do we find shapes as described above?”
“What is the significance of the influence where oblong squares are used?”
“A Tetractus is based on the Triangle, has this any meaning?”
On the Temperance card we find a circle with a point in the middle. What is the significance to that? (Tetractus).
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 486#259486
Cedars ,
The trees as spoken of, must have been created by means of grafting and would possibly the resemble a lollipop, we do this with roses and fruit trees espscially. If these trees were hybridized, Solomon must have had a good grasp of “Tissue-culturing” or plant cloning, but inserting another plants cells within the nucleus. In other words, he must have been an alchemist and Magician as well. In Magickal grimoires, a lot of references are made to “Key of Solomon the King”
I think we need not, continue further regarding Jachin and Boaz in Freemasonry!
Regarding Yellow, you are right in saying it signifies gold, hence the Crowns, in this posting I bring a bit of another spin on the Crowns.
In the RW, we find that 3 virtues are recognized and dealt with specifically. You find them in the secord set of seven of the major Arcanum, which deals with spiritual progress.
1) Strength—Yellow,
2) Justice—Red,
3) Temperance—White?
These are also the main Virtues adopted by the Christian faith.
Strength, actually refers to inner strength, derived from their close relationship with God and their faith is seen as a pillar of Strength. This mainly referres to strength and faith in God. Whenever there is a reference made to seeing heaven and God, the cities are Gold and God To Gloriuos to see, in the sense that the light will kill you. Also some angels are shimmering gold, ssome other plain scary to see, imagine seeing a being with four wings eight heads and covered with eyes, even his hand palms and probably under his feet? Something interesting about elementals, is that they adopt different body parts from animals when presenting themselves in the triangle. When conjuring them, you have to ask them to make themselves visible in such a form as not to instill fear in participating members of the Coven! So, at times they will appear as a human form or hopefully a single animal form.
Getting back to yellow, as signifying gold, it also signifies God and obviously spirit. When we then consider the crowns etc. we can see that it stands for divine knowledge or appointment as well. In the Bible is a refferance wich goes something like this. Obey the laws of a country as the rulers were appointed by God, notwithstanding Christian or not!
Looking at the Moon, you mentioned that it may also be the Sun. I had a look at the Sun. You will see distinck “heat waves” in the rays of the Sun, not apparent in the Moon. I speculate that the all yellow seven of swords could indicate creative means of winning a battle by not facing the enemy straight on, but with cunning and skill.
I include my description and interpretation for you.
Symbolism:
Man making of: Stealth and bravery
Five hidden swords: Cunning and diplomacy.
Two remaining swords: Desire to be truthful.
Tents: Enemy camp.
Element: Air
Direction: South.
Season: Autumn.
Zodiac: First quarter of Libra and ruled by Justice.
Comparative to the Magician. (Charlatan.)
Card Description.
A man making of with 5 swords hidden under his clothing as a thief. The encampment of the enemy is breached; two swords remain in the ground behind.
Meaning: “Stealth and bravery”.
Where as with the Chariot, meeting enemies face on, charging in to claim victory. This card is all about cunning, diplomacy and actually, underhandedness. This card indicates that you must use a roundabout way in overcoming obstacles. You don’t have the resources to meet them head on, catch them where they are weakest. Infiltrate the established defenses, and then render them harmless.
Upright:
Bravery and stealth. Underhandedness, diplomacy and advice.
In entering unmarked territory, you haven’t got the experience to fight your opposition. You will find it almost impossible to attack them straight on. You need to make use of your intellectual abilities to outsmart your opposition. Rather use a byway to find their weak points and strengthen your own position with their weakness.
Reversed:
Slander. A plan that may fail; annoyances. Overconfidence leading to instability in your affairs
Delayed solution, stagnation, a proposal of love. Declaration.
I now want to mave on a bit and let’s see what the following may bring:
Geometry, God and Tarot.
Forty-seventh Problem of Euclid
Symbol of geometry; of exact science. Passed over with but a few words of ritual, it is Masonically most in¬teresting. It appears on the frontispiece of An¬derson's Constitutions, published in 1723; Street says it is the earliest example of a printed symbol of Freemasonry. It was apparently known to ancient mathematicians long before Pythagoras (Masonically credited as its discoverer) or Eu¬clid, who made of the properties of a right-angled triangle his forty-seventh problem. It is the root of all mathematics used to determine an unknown from two knowns. Given the distance of a moun¬tain and the angle of sight to its top, mathematics may determine its height. Tunnels are driven through mountains from both sides to meet ex¬actly by means of measurements made by the forty-seventh problem. Navigation of the seas depends upon it. In non-Euclidian language, a right angled triangle of 3 feet base and 4 feet height, has a line 5 feet long joining the free ends of the two legs. The square of 3 is 9; the square of 4 is 16; the sum of 9 and 16 is 25; the square root of 25 is 5. All right-angled triangles, regardless of the length of base and upright, follow this law; that the line joining the free ends (the hypotenuse) is the square root of the sum {)f the squares of the two sides. Therefore, if any two of the three are known, the third may be calculated. According to the ritual "it teaches Masons to he general lovers of the arts and sciences". This short description encompasses the study of geometry. The ritual is here not factual. Pythagoras was poor and could hardly have possessed a hecatomb (hundred head of cattle). He was a vegetarian, and reverenced animal life; he would not have killed one cow, let alone a hundred, to "celebrate" his discovery. He may have cried "Eureka", but could hardly have been "raised to the sublime degree of Master Mason," which did not take even an ancient and simple form until centuries after he died.
Geometry
(See Forty-seventh Problem.) "God is always geometrizing," said the ancient philos¬opher. In the Fellowcraft Degree, geometry is a symbol not only of mathematics but of the divine and moral significance of abstract truth.
Guys here we get to a different angle altogether. What would the significance be when considering that God is always geometrizing? We can clearly see references made in the above passage to Pythagoras. Now Pythagoras as we know designed the Tetractus. I don’t want to just blast forth and start discussing the Tetractus. This is a subject all on its own, and needs its own set of research material and derivatives, gleaned from the information we are presented with.
But clearly we know that the Tetractus contains the Tetragrammaton (the unspoken name of God, because it is so Holy). Where do we find reference to this in the ancient myths.
Let us have a look at the suit of Cups, representing the clergy at that time!! Cups is obviously water, and in water we find fish. The myth goes that a salmon swam upriver and landed in a crystal pond. Now as covering or canopy, we had Yggdrasil or the Celtic Tree of life, obviously being fed by the water from this pond. As all trees bear fruit and seed, these then fell into the pond. The salmon ate these fruit and with this, gleaned tremendous wisdom, even regarding the Underworld. Odin in his travels and after losing his one eye, came across this pond. Understandable he was hungry, and I think an imposing figure, even in human form. Now, Odin caught this salmon and ate it. This resulted in him becoming so wise that his new name can never be spoken. He became the God revered above all other Gods!! Or ultimate deity. Now the Tetragrammaton is the name which is given to God only as reference to the ultimate deity as his name may not be spoken, contained within the Pythagorean Tetractus. Thus the belief that eating fish bring about mind power, which as being confessed over the years has actually become a fact. But we also know how good, fish oil tablets, and the omegas extracted, are for us!!
Now the references above” geometry is a symbol not only of mathematics but of the divine and moral significance of abstract truth.” And “God is always geometrizing,"
The questions asked is: “Where do we find abstract truth and geometry?”
“Where do we find shapes as described above?”
“What is the significance of the influence where oblong squares are used?”
“A Tetractus is based on the Triangle, has this any meaning?”
On the Temperance card we find a circle with a point in the middle. What is the significance to that? (Tetractus).
Last edited by Payewacker on Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hi Payewacker
You've just shed a different light on the 7 of swords, making it sound like a brave man whilst he does things in an underhanded way. I was giving a reading once and I got the 7 of swords and I could not help but feel that somene was stealing something from her. It turned out that that same day she had had burglary at home. And yet this card is virtually all yellow - bravery??
I agree there are more than one side to a card (the negative and the positive) and this man has a smirk on his face which indicates he knows what he is doing is not the rigth way, and yet he will still do it.
What is the significance of the Tetracus, PW?
You've just shed a different light on the 7 of swords, making it sound like a brave man whilst he does things in an underhanded way. I was giving a reading once and I got the 7 of swords and I could not help but feel that somene was stealing something from her. It turned out that that same day she had had burglary at home. And yet this card is virtually all yellow - bravery??
I agree there are more than one side to a card (the negative and the positive) and this man has a smirk on his face which indicates he knows what he is doing is not the rigth way, and yet he will still do it.
What is the significance of the Tetracus, PW?
Hello PW,
Quite deep and intense stuff there my friend. The topics you have covered need deeper contemplation and further reading.
However, I have some work, mainly on the Major Arcana, and here are my results.
Where do we find shapes as described above?”
1. The chest of the Temperance with a triangle in the middle.
2. A white quadrangle on the lowest white bit of the Hierophants robe.
3. A square on the charioteer’s chest on The Chariot.
4. I wonder if the clear-cut squares or rectangular coffins on the Judgement have any bearing.
5. There are some symbols on the Magician’s table (three of them) but I cannot decipher what they are.
6. A square on the Justice’s tunic. Is that a pin or does it have any symbolic significance?
7. On the towers of the Moon, a square each. Windows??
8. On the Wheel of Fortune, inside the circle various shapes of triangles and so on.
Have I missed much?
Quite deep and intense stuff there my friend. The topics you have covered need deeper contemplation and further reading.
However, I have some work, mainly on the Major Arcana, and here are my results.
Where do we find shapes as described above?”
1. The chest of the Temperance with a triangle in the middle.
2. A white quadrangle on the lowest white bit of the Hierophants robe.
3. A square on the charioteer’s chest on The Chariot.
4. I wonder if the clear-cut squares or rectangular coffins on the Judgement have any bearing.
5. There are some symbols on the Magician’s table (three of them) but I cannot decipher what they are.
6. A square on the Justice’s tunic. Is that a pin or does it have any symbolic significance?
7. On the towers of the Moon, a square each. Windows??
8. On the Wheel of Fortune, inside the circle various shapes of triangles and so on.
Have I missed much?
-
Payewacker
- Posts: 1322
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:01 am
For those who didn't follow this thread, go to page 10, where you will find the links to the subjects discussed!
Hi Cedars,
I just acn't understand clearly how it is that "aspiring" Tarot readers, don't have an interest in learning how things fit toghether. Sometimes, yes, we get to levels where they loose themselves in a maze of symbolism, or don't comcern themselves with the true influences, as shown in the cards and joined by these symbols.
As u know, we are always learning, I wonder how these "readers" can ever think that they have reached the point of "total enlightenment"
Blessed be
Hi Cedars,
I just acn't understand clearly how it is that "aspiring" Tarot readers, don't have an interest in learning how things fit toghether. Sometimes, yes, we get to levels where they loose themselves in a maze of symbolism, or don't comcern themselves with the true influences, as shown in the cards and joined by these symbols.
As u know, we are always learning, I wonder how these "readers" can ever think that they have reached the point of "total enlightenment"
Blessed be
Last edited by Payewacker on Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Payewacker,
The more I read about the tarot and its symbolism and the pictorial meanings, the more I am fascinated AND learning and learning and learning. There have been instances when a certain card which in its book meaning was one thing and in a spread brought about something completely different. That can only be learnt by reading, practising and having the desire to learn.
You have gone through lenghts in passing on your knowledge in the history and symbolism of tarot, which, I admit, can be daunting sometimes, but to read and find out even a certain % of its content is a gift worth celebrating. Thank you so far for all your contributions and please do not be deterred from passing on further topics to the boards due to the lack of response.
In fact, I have prepared a layout of the Celtic Cross spread based on inputs from you and from my own studies and, both together, bring about a much better understanding of the spread.
I was reading The Hermitage tarot site over the weekend and came across some invaluable information about the origins of the tarot and so many other useful topics that are covered there.
As to why our friends in here do not partake in the "How much do you want to learn?" please do not be discouraged. I am sure and I hope they are reading and wish sometimes they would air their opinions. We have a lot to learn from each other.
We all have something to give.
The more I read about the tarot and its symbolism and the pictorial meanings, the more I am fascinated AND learning and learning and learning. There have been instances when a certain card which in its book meaning was one thing and in a spread brought about something completely different. That can only be learnt by reading, practising and having the desire to learn.
You have gone through lenghts in passing on your knowledge in the history and symbolism of tarot, which, I admit, can be daunting sometimes, but to read and find out even a certain % of its content is a gift worth celebrating. Thank you so far for all your contributions and please do not be deterred from passing on further topics to the boards due to the lack of response.
In fact, I have prepared a layout of the Celtic Cross spread based on inputs from you and from my own studies and, both together, bring about a much better understanding of the spread.
I was reading The Hermitage tarot site over the weekend and came across some invaluable information about the origins of the tarot and so many other useful topics that are covered there.
As to why our friends in here do not partake in the "How much do you want to learn?" please do not be discouraged. I am sure and I hope they are reading and wish sometimes they would air their opinions. We have a lot to learn from each other.
We all have something to give.
-
Rhutobello
- Posts: 10724
- Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:39 pm
I must say I follow your post...and I like what I read...and I learn.
BUT the fact is that I am not that good in Tarot, and "my headache" prevent me to keep focus to long.....so it is not because I don't find the discussion of interest I don't attend
I just go around preaching my "Free Will", but I am at the same time very glad for the work you all do...and I respect it...so please go on...and for those who want to attend...do so....but please no readings request in this thread
BUT the fact is that I am not that good in Tarot, and "my headache" prevent me to keep focus to long.....so it is not because I don't find the discussion of interest I don't attend
I just go around preaching my "Free Will", but I am at the same time very glad for the work you all do...and I respect it...so please go on...and for those who want to attend...do so....but please no readings request in this thread
-
Payewacker
- Posts: 1322
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:01 am
For those who didn't follow this thread, go to page 10, where you will find the links to the subjects discussed!
HAHA Cedars, you see, a lot too learn very few people to teach?
The posting you did, and questions raised are interesting. Let me start by The Moon (again). The windows links the Moon directly to The Tower. MMMMM, what do we make of this? Could it mean, as oblong squares, the same as how we would determine the "Fours" as boundaries, and maybe as a point where there is not really a possibility to be creative, or move out of the area as designated by a single force or influence, which is "enclosing" the querant?
Could we then say that when you have your head in the clouds to much, certain destruction or maybe only a mental "mindset"
Now, why 2 towers on the Moon and only one on the Tower card?
My inclination is that although we have "solid" guidance from God, ignoring that, will take us on a road of "troubles", not actual destruction, this is the Moon itself, as it is closely linked to the Tower.
Another thing wich is also to be considered is that the Major Arcanum is divided into 3 sections of seven cards. Therefore looking at the Tower, where does it sit and what is it's importance? How is it that the Tower sits on a solid base of rocks and the Moon on a questionable "watery" base, we can't really see, can we?
I think when we look at the Major Arcanum, and it's spiritual path, as we should follow. The Tower being 16 and the Moon being 18, Judgement 20. We would be 2 steps away from the "beginning" of the second set of seven. What is interesting is that the first set of seven actually describes the "control" people have over others, the second set of seven is where you start finding your virtues, and therefore also the way to consieve in which a person should travel.
The third set of seven is more the "spiritual side of things" In this then can we not see, that perhaps a person's relationship with the divine and also with each and every person around them, is based on how they ultimately behave, and how they will experience the negative if they treat people like +++++++!!!!!!!!!!!
What we clearly also see is the Yods coming down from "above" Can we the assume that in the Moon card we see divine intuition and in the Tower, divine intervention, espescially for those wanting that which they are not entitled to,"story of Babel"
The oblong squares appearing on the Judgement card, must have direct bearing to the Moon and the Tower, why would i think this. Let us consider that the Moon, gives us "spiritual" enlightenment, and the Tower a just and sudden retraction or destuction. In some instances, yes, getting the Tower absolutely spells disaster, of which we should be sensitive to? Looking at the cards as they are, we see Yods on both of them, isn't it then from the divine, that is what a Yod is all about!!! In Judgement then, the Tower destroyed, Judgement brings new life?
What if we start looking at the rhytm of the cards, they are all working on two's, if we look at the two of pentacle, the four and then the six of pentacles, isn't it obvious that in the same sense we are working through the Minor Arcanum as well, but at a higher level? I think in the Swords this is more profound.
Looking at the Swords, 2-Balance, 4--Contemplation, 6--Victory(moving from a bad place to a better)????? Six also stands for Vav--6 in Hebrew, and the day that God created Man, which is incorporated in Aleph, the number One, which also contains both the Yod and Yod with hook. With Yod and Yod with hook, why is there a difference, in the Hebrew culture, if a Yod should have a hook, and doesn't, the entire text is discarded and declared as a fallacy, no matter if it's 100 pages thick, all of it is absolutely ignored.
In this then, we see where the Magician, Lovers and Judgement has it's partnership.
Blessed be
HAHA Cedars, you see, a lot too learn very few people to teach?
The posting you did, and questions raised are interesting. Let me start by The Moon (again). The windows links the Moon directly to The Tower. MMMMM, what do we make of this? Could it mean, as oblong squares, the same as how we would determine the "Fours" as boundaries, and maybe as a point where there is not really a possibility to be creative, or move out of the area as designated by a single force or influence, which is "enclosing" the querant?
Could we then say that when you have your head in the clouds to much, certain destruction or maybe only a mental "mindset"
Now, why 2 towers on the Moon and only one on the Tower card?
My inclination is that although we have "solid" guidance from God, ignoring that, will take us on a road of "troubles", not actual destruction, this is the Moon itself, as it is closely linked to the Tower.
Another thing wich is also to be considered is that the Major Arcanum is divided into 3 sections of seven cards. Therefore looking at the Tower, where does it sit and what is it's importance? How is it that the Tower sits on a solid base of rocks and the Moon on a questionable "watery" base, we can't really see, can we?
I think when we look at the Major Arcanum, and it's spiritual path, as we should follow. The Tower being 16 and the Moon being 18, Judgement 20. We would be 2 steps away from the "beginning" of the second set of seven. What is interesting is that the first set of seven actually describes the "control" people have over others, the second set of seven is where you start finding your virtues, and therefore also the way to consieve in which a person should travel.
The third set of seven is more the "spiritual side of things" In this then can we not see, that perhaps a person's relationship with the divine and also with each and every person around them, is based on how they ultimately behave, and how they will experience the negative if they treat people like +++++++!!!!!!!!!!!
What we clearly also see is the Yods coming down from "above" Can we the assume that in the Moon card we see divine intuition and in the Tower, divine intervention, espescially for those wanting that which they are not entitled to,"story of Babel"
The oblong squares appearing on the Judgement card, must have direct bearing to the Moon and the Tower, why would i think this. Let us consider that the Moon, gives us "spiritual" enlightenment, and the Tower a just and sudden retraction or destuction. In some instances, yes, getting the Tower absolutely spells disaster, of which we should be sensitive to? Looking at the cards as they are, we see Yods on both of them, isn't it then from the divine, that is what a Yod is all about!!! In Judgement then, the Tower destroyed, Judgement brings new life?
What if we start looking at the rhytm of the cards, they are all working on two's, if we look at the two of pentacle, the four and then the six of pentacles, isn't it obvious that in the same sense we are working through the Minor Arcanum as well, but at a higher level? I think in the Swords this is more profound.
Looking at the Swords, 2-Balance, 4--Contemplation, 6--Victory(moving from a bad place to a better)????? Six also stands for Vav--6 in Hebrew, and the day that God created Man, which is incorporated in Aleph, the number One, which also contains both the Yod and Yod with hook. With Yod and Yod with hook, why is there a difference, in the Hebrew culture, if a Yod should have a hook, and doesn't, the entire text is discarded and declared as a fallacy, no matter if it's 100 pages thick, all of it is absolutely ignored.
In this then, we see where the Magician, Lovers and Judgement has it's partnership.
Blessed be
Last edited by Payewacker on Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Payewacker
- Posts: 1322
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:01 am
Hi Cedars
Interesting, Judgement doesn't have Yods, however the angel implies"The Divine".
Have a look at the people, being raised. in the front we find the man to the left of the anges and the woman to the right, looking up at the angel, should the angel turn around and look at the people in the back, it is reversed! in this card the only one looking at us is the angel, the people have their attention on the angel.
Looking at the the Lovers, we find that the lovers are looking in general straight direction, catch my drift here? The woman is "aware" of the angel but the man staring straight forward, i would also if i looked so bad without undies. HeeHee, had to say it!!!
Should they turn around, they would be as the reversed pair on the Judgement card, but also don't pair up with the one's in the front. They were then "flipped", might this have been a mistake or something significant?
Interesting, Judgement doesn't have Yods, however the angel implies"The Divine".
Have a look at the people, being raised. in the front we find the man to the left of the anges and the woman to the right, looking up at the angel, should the angel turn around and look at the people in the back, it is reversed! in this card the only one looking at us is the angel, the people have their attention on the angel.
Looking at the the Lovers, we find that the lovers are looking in general straight direction, catch my drift here? The woman is "aware" of the angel but the man staring straight forward, i would also if i looked so bad without undies. HeeHee, had to say it!!!
Should they turn around, they would be as the reversed pair on the Judgement card, but also don't pair up with the one's in the front. They were then "flipped", might this have been a mistake or something significant?
Do as you want, Harm none!
Hi Payewacker
Ok. Let's go and see who's looking towards whom?
Without wishing to contradict, I always thought the angel on the Judgement was sort of looking sideways and towards the woman, whilst the man as if asking for the angel's attention. By the same token, again, with the Lovers card, although the angel is looking straight at us, the woman has her head half raised towards the angel and the man is almost unaware of the angel's presence; unware of a higher, divine power (almost a typical man?)
Could this be because of the conscious and the unconscious minds?
If the man is the conscious mind in the Lovers and the woman the unconscious (intuitive) mind, could it be that in the end i.e. on Judgement day the man is looking up towards the higher power and the woman is almost asking the angel to absolve the man and forgive him for his conscious errors and misdeeds?
The tree behind the woman in the Lovers is our consciousness for knowledge: Good and evil.
The tree behind the man has got twelve fruits; could this be the twelve zodiac signs, twleve months of the year..??
I did try to look at these cards in their reveresed form, and in the case of the Lovers I saw the woman looking at the man, but not in a desperate way as in the Judgement card where she is almost seeking for divine mercy...for the man or for her man.
The Angel in the Lovers I feel is an impartial one, does not take sides, or lets us make our choices (and mistakes) of our own free will. But the Judgement angel can be judgemental.
My thoughts......
Ok. Let's go and see who's looking towards whom?
Without wishing to contradict, I always thought the angel on the Judgement was sort of looking sideways and towards the woman, whilst the man as if asking for the angel's attention. By the same token, again, with the Lovers card, although the angel is looking straight at us, the woman has her head half raised towards the angel and the man is almost unaware of the angel's presence; unware of a higher, divine power (almost a typical man?)
Could this be because of the conscious and the unconscious minds?
If the man is the conscious mind in the Lovers and the woman the unconscious (intuitive) mind, could it be that in the end i.e. on Judgement day the man is looking up towards the higher power and the woman is almost asking the angel to absolve the man and forgive him for his conscious errors and misdeeds?
The tree behind the woman in the Lovers is our consciousness for knowledge: Good and evil.
The tree behind the man has got twelve fruits; could this be the twelve zodiac signs, twleve months of the year..??
I did try to look at these cards in their reveresed form, and in the case of the Lovers I saw the woman looking at the man, but not in a desperate way as in the Judgement card where she is almost seeking for divine mercy...for the man or for her man.
The Angel in the Lovers I feel is an impartial one, does not take sides, or lets us make our choices (and mistakes) of our own free will. But the Judgement angel can be judgemental.
My thoughts......
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Payewacker
- Posts: 1322
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:01 am
Hi Cedars,
MMM, interesting. However, i need to ask you, which of the twelfe fruits did the man actually partake in? Some humor.
On the Lovers, yes the man is looking straight forward or into an empty space, again, the "undies" are lacking?
Serious now, I agree than the man, is not as aware of the divine as the woman would be, or as you say the conscious and the unconscious, i have a problem with the spelling of these "big" words!!
Ya, and the misdeeds or deeds according to the Bible, are contemplated as per "men"--and ye man will be judged according................Woman was birthed from man, or created from man. "HOMO SAPIENS" ?????????? ask no questions you hear no lies!!! I'm really going to be nailed one of these days??
Yes, in that sense, are the man going to be judged for the misdeeds of his woman as well? Can we then think that the woman is truly asking for the man's redemption?
Men, unfortunately has a tendancy to fall into "disgrace" from time to time. Should by the woman's willing to give herself as offering the man be exaunerared?
Cedars, i replied to your posting, wanting to bring some humor as well, please don't think me festicious.
The question, which fruit was plucked from the tree. Consider the snake!! The twelve fruits, i didn't see there were only twelve fruits, thank-you for sharing that with me.
Who is now checking the symbolism?
I so love this, ++++ can carry on for ages.
Blessed be
MMM, interesting. However, i need to ask you, which of the twelfe fruits did the man actually partake in? Some humor.
On the Lovers, yes the man is looking straight forward or into an empty space, again, the "undies" are lacking?
Serious now, I agree than the man, is not as aware of the divine as the woman would be, or as you say the conscious and the unconscious, i have a problem with the spelling of these "big" words!!
Ya, and the misdeeds or deeds according to the Bible, are contemplated as per "men"--and ye man will be judged according................Woman was birthed from man, or created from man. "HOMO SAPIENS" ?????????? ask no questions you hear no lies!!! I'm really going to be nailed one of these days??
Yes, in that sense, are the man going to be judged for the misdeeds of his woman as well? Can we then think that the woman is truly asking for the man's redemption?
Men, unfortunately has a tendancy to fall into "disgrace" from time to time. Should by the woman's willing to give herself as offering the man be exaunerared?
Cedars, i replied to your posting, wanting to bring some humor as well, please don't think me festicious.
The question, which fruit was plucked from the tree. Consider the snake!! The twelve fruits, i didn't see there were only twelve fruits, thank-you for sharing that with me.
Who is now checking the symbolism?
I so love this, ++++ can carry on for ages.
Blessed be
Do as you want, Harm none!
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