Spirituality,Compassion and the Vegetarian Diet

[alchemaze]

I was wondering if people on these boards consider compassion towards Animals in relation to there own Spiritual quest.
Is it important for spiritual enlightenment to abstain from eating animals,or does using them as sustenance allow us to be part of Nature?
If we are to beleive in Reincarnation,is it possible we are eating a deceased relative?
I am personally strictly Vegetarian,but wish to know others feelings on this matter.

[Erinrose]

I have come across many who ask that question. I believe it is like most things - a personal choice. No one should be made to feel bad because they cannot stick to a vegetarian diet. The act of saying a prayer before a meal is one way to thank the animals for their part in the scheme of things.

I have talked with people who suffer conflict in their religion because they struggle to do, not what is right, but what they think others think they should be doing. We are each on a personal and spiritual journey. We may or may not be heading in the same direction, but no two people will travel this road doing, thinking, wanting or eating the same things.

The important thing is intent. What do you intend to do to make this world a better place. Whatever you decide to do must be done with pure intent. In other words, not grudgingly. It must be done because it is something you and every aspect of your being is happy and comfortable with.

[Wælwulf]

Life feeds on life. One must consume life in order to remain among the living.

I suppose we could be eating relatives, but how do we know that our ancestor isn't a tree. I, personally, would gladly give my life so that my descendants might live another day (but I was raised to think that the family is more important than the individual, & I was always taught not to fear death, so that's probably just me).

Just because a piece of broccoli doesn't scream, or move like we do, doesn't mean it feels any different. We must kill in order to live. We just need to remember to be grateful that something gave it's life (even though it involuntarily gave up the ghost) so that we may continue to live another day, be it a plant, or an animal, or anything else.

[alchemaze]

It certainly is an individual journey Erinrose.I have never seen fundimentalism convert anyone to any way of beleif. In fact being hard line generally can have the oposite effect. That is why I asked this,not to judge but to see what people feel.
Certainly I agree that intent ,and giving thanks,is important no matter how you go about doing things in life. Especially as a Society,people are being conditioned to lose touch with their true nature.
Its coming to a point though,where humanity will have to decide on which one of the major consumers of the environment we will have to give up,due to global warming. I cant see that it will be the car to go.

[Gem]

Actually I thought a study had been done that proved that plants do scream, but in a different way? Its been proven that plants can communicate, they can warn others of their impending doom and so on,  But animals do so in a way we cannot ignore when face to face with it in reality, instead many hide from this truth by buying prepackaged sterile packets of dead flesh that bear no resemblance to a dead animal.

[alchemaze]

I missed your post before I submitted mine Waelwulf.
When we get to a certain animate spiritual evolution we have to do something pretty drastic to reverse this.
Sure trees have spirit,and brocili has life,but not in the same way as Animal species of Blood and Bone,we have a soul as well.
This is what I was getting at. Some Religions wont eat pigs for instance,some consider Dogs holy,others eat them,same with the Cow. Why do these religions and Cultures differ?
Life taken for a Life sustained. Does this create peace and harmony on our planet? If we have a choice to not shed blood for our lives,why not take it?
Perhaps War will end amongst humans, when we stop waging war on animals and nature.Maybe War is not created by religion or Oil,after all
Food for thought  :)

[Wælwulf]

When we get to a certain animate spiritual evolution we have to do something pretty drastic to reverse this.

How do we know the point at which this needs to be done? What, exactly, has to be done, & what are we trying to remedy?

Sure trees have spirit,and brocili has life,but not in the same way as Animal species of Blood and Bone,we have a soul as well.

Yes, it's not the same (at least to our eyes & ears). We have a tendency to anthropomorphize things that appear to be like us; the more similar something is, the more humanity we ascribe to it. Is there a difference in killing to eat an animal & plant? I don't know, & for me to state that I do would be grossly negligent (& most likely may make me look like a fool later in life).

This is what I was getting at. Some Religions wont eat pigs for instance,some consider Dogs holy,others eat them,same with the Cow. Why do these religions and Cultures differ?

Just as there is genetic drift between people that live great distances from one another, there is also a cultural drift. When people are separated by many miles over long periods of time, the people change from one another. This can be seen in everything from language to skin color. The reasons people have differing views on which animals should & shouldn't be eaten are varied. Take the western world, for instance. We don't eat horses because the Germanic people did it before the coming of Christianity, & it was seen as a pagan practice & put down. Some people see certain animals as sacred, be they a god incarnate, or an ancestor, or friend, etcetera. Some people, particularly the ones that believe in reincarnation, won't eat any animals at all.

Not sure if that was your point or not but...

Life taken for a Life sustained. Does this create peace and harmony on our planet? If we have a choice to not shed blood for our lives,why not take it?

That would be great if blood were shed between people because we see blood (which it may be, I suppose, but that's not how I perceive it, anyway) & take it from other animals. Blood, I believe, is shed between people because we have never, don't, & will never see eye to eye on everything. There are just too many of us, & the world is too big for us to have one culture that sees most things the same. However, even in one culture, people can (obviously) have radically different opinions on varied subjects. Differing opinions on things doesn't have to start war, if everyone could agree to disagree, but we don't (I do, but I'm in the minority (I am, however, incredibly opinionated, but usually agree to disagree, unless someone is negligent in their statements of something as absolute fact with no supporting evidence); besides, having the ability to see both sides of the fence can be somewhat distressing at times).

Perhaps War will end amongst humans, when we stop waging war on animals and nature.Maybe War is not created by religion or Oil,after all
Food for thought  :)

I'm of the opinion that war will never end, be it between humans, or humans & some other species.

I like to look at the world around me to try & make sense of it through those observations. The distressing(?) part of this is that war is all around us, be it humans, or other animals (yes, there is war in the animal kingdom i.e. not humans). I'm pretty sure it has always been like that &, so should remain like that, but nothing is set in stone, &, in the end, we have no way of knowing anything with any degree of certainty.

[alchemaze]

Ahh,a post Discector..at least that part of you is clear.
At the end of your lives as fruits vegetables and other dominant species,maybe you will realise that not fully understanding our role as a seemingly intelligent life form just sent you in circles?
Animals are not vegetables,however some humans certainly act as interesting as the GM flavorless ones.
Have a heart and realise the Mass Imprisonment and slaughter of animals for our enjoyment creates fear on this planet that is unparalelled.How is this spiritual?

It takes 50,000-100,000 litres of water to create 1kg of beef in the life cycle of a cow. That is an unecessary waste of resource.
Each Abatoir uses 480 Gigalitres of water(possibley much more) a year in production..thats an environmentsl disaster.

Some of the most important sages,Lau-Tzu,Buddha,Krisna and perhaps even Christ were vegetarians.
I cant see anyone getting to heaven with a belly full of another species suffering..

[Wælwulf]

At the end of your lives as fruits vegetables and other dominant species,maybe you will realise that not fully understanding our role as a seemingly intelligent life form just sent you in circles?

I'm having difficulty with your grammar. I don't necessarily believe in reincarnation (If that's what you're implying, that's another thread entirely though). I am a polytheist & animist, & believe that everything is alive & has a spirit, be it plant, animal, or mineral.

"Not fully understanding our role as a seemingly intelligent life form"? It's been quite some time since I last took philosophy, but this appears to be a logical fallacy. How does one "fully understand" something "seemingly"? To fully understand something based on appearance alone is... an irreconcilable problem.

How was I sent in circles?

Animals are not vegetables

I don't remember implying that they were; however, due to the fact that we cannot communicate with them directly, does not mean that they are not similar on some level. I'm not saying that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. I'm merely pointing out that the possibilities are endless. Ultimately, this is something that cannot be properly debated due to it's inherent ambiguity (which, I suppose, could be applied to our entire debate).

Have a heart and realise the Mass Imprisonment and slaughter of animals for our enjoyment creates fear on this planet that is unparalelled.How is this spiritual?

I never said that was acceptable behavior. Just because I am an eater of flesh, doesn't mean that I agree with commercial farming methods currently in use. I don't make it a habit of consuming prepackaged meat. There are people with the ability to raise their own food. I believe that this creates a spiritual connection to the world around us in a way unparalleled in eating prepackaged meat or being a vegetarian, unless, maybe, you're raising you're own vegetables (to each his own) . Trust me, looking into the eyes of an animal that you're about to slaughter is powerful. It gives you a respect for life that cannot be gained otherwise. The key is respect.

How do you know that this creates "unparalleled" fear? This is an amphiboly; do you mean that it creates fear in people; or that it creates fear in animals? Any supporting arguments?

It takes 50,000-100,000 litres of water to create 1kg of beef in the life cycle of a cow. That is an unecessary waste of resource.
Each Abatoir uses 480 Gigalitres of water(possibley much more) a year in production..thats an environmentsl disaster.

You do know what transpiration is, don't you? You may want to look into the hydrologic cycle. The balance of water on Earth remains fairly constant over time. I'm not saying that we don't screw some of it up, but if water were completely & irrevocably consumed, the planet would have lost it's water supply many millennia or æons ago.

I don't know a lot about slaughterhouses (I don't really use them, & have no need for them), so I don't know if this creates undrinkable water or not.

I cant see anyone getting to heaven with a belly full of another species suffering..

I don't really believe in eternal (or temporary, for that matter) damnation, so heaven doesn't really matter; I'll see my family when I die (in accordance with my personal religious beliefs) & that's fine with me.

I'm not saying that we are supposed to eat the amount of meat that many people currently do, a lot can be gleaned from the observation of our primate cousins, who, on some occasions, eat meat. I could go into a lengthy anthropological discussion on meat consumption in homo sapiens sapiens, but that would drift too far (much further than I probably have already) from the question at hand & probably would be completely inappropriate for this board.