House Divisions in Vedic & Astrology Classics

[RishiRahul]

Why leave poor Pluto alone, friend! Let us form the three pairs!

Rahu/Uranus
Ketu/Neptune
Gulika/Pluto!

Shall we change the header, lest the boss gets upset?

Oh but I forgot that YOU ARE the BOSS <LOL>

Love, Light, Levitation!

Yes, they are very similar in acttions.

Dear Dada and Others,

I wanted an opinion regarding house cusps/divisions in Vedic.

Out of Porphyrys (Sripati) and Placidius house divisions which one would you favour?

Rishi

Sripathi is fine, although it is mathematically more approximate. Whole sign system works well, in general, although chalit is useful in older person. It seems sometimes that as we age, chalit becomes more useful as a side-glance (secondary consideration!)

Sripathi and Placidus is very close to each other. I find both very close in degrees, but for more perfection, I was wondering if anyone has researched the difference!?

Placidus was followed by Krishnamurthy, the founder of the 'Paddhhati'.
In K.P. the house divisions should be perfect.

Well, I must bring out my old records of K.P. to check this detail, now that perfect softwares are available like jhora.
I wonder which software Dada uses!

Talking of the difference between bhava and rasi charts, the results of bhava occurs in later life, rather old age, as a second consieration.
I would say, more in later life as a second consideration.

Biltu's chart worries me here. He is 30 and not yet married. In any case, which cannot be called an early marriage. (7 Sept 1982 @ 8.30 hrs in Hooghly, India).

His rasi chart is not suggesting late marriage, unless the birth time is 14 minutes before.
But in his bhava chart, sani chandra opposition moves to the 1/7 axis!??

RishiRahul

[Brahma Mihira]

Biltu's chart worries me here. He is 30 and not yet married. In any case, which cannot be called an early marriage. (7 Sept 1982 @ 8.30 hrs in Hooghly, India).

His rasi chart is not suggesting late marriage, unless the birth time is 14 minutes before.
But in his bhava chart, sani chandra opposition moves to the 1/7 axis!??

RishiRahul

Just slight explanation, if he born at 8:30AM, in Rashi chart,

Venus stay in badaka stana with badaka planet, also Venus is 22nd drekkana, this Venus aspect (9th) to 7th house. Also Moon in Krishna paksh.

Sorry if mistakes. Just slight idea.

&nbsp;:smt017

[RishiRahul]

Biltu's chart worries me here. He is 30 and not yet married. In any case, which cannot be called an early marriage. (7 Sept 1982 @ 8.30 hrs in Hooghly, India).

His rasi chart is not suggesting late marriage, unless the birth time is 14 minutes before.
But in his bhava chart, sani chandra opposition moves to the 1/7 axis!??

RishiRahul

Just slight explanation, if he born at 8:30AM, in Rashi chart,

Venus stay in badaka stana with badaka planet, also Venus is 22nd drekkana, this Venus aspect (9th) to 7th house. Also Moon in Krishna paksh.

Sorry if mistakes. Just slight idea.

 :smt017

Dear Brahma muhurtha,

Great to see you giving nice opinions!
Yes, badhaksthana and 22nd. drekkana  are good points from your side, but they can relate to other things in life too.
A person having Venus in badhak sthana with badhakadhipati, may or may have a late marriage. Its not a great confirmation, but a fine point!

Late marriages can be attributed to the aspect (include position too) of Sani on the 7th. house & 7th. lord.

We may extend this to the malefic aspect/presence of nodes too.

We may further expented to the natural/chara kalhatra karak having similar afflictions.

Others and Bhrahma muhurtha may place their views.

RishiRahul

[Brahma Mihira]

Personally I check sripathy chalit chart because of like this situations, above explanations me and RR ji's on rashi chart confirm by chalit chart being sani - chandra opposition moves to the 1/7 axis in bhava chart.

Yes, Venus is marraige karak from one point. Mangala in 1st creates mangalic dosa in basic.

Is there have shani link with 7th house in his rashi chart? I didn't check full research in this chart yet.

[Vinay Jha]

Namaste,

HOUSE &nbsp;DIVISIONS &nbsp;IN &nbsp;VEDIC &nbsp;ASTROLOGY :

Modern softwares have created scores of housing types in astrology. Unfortunately, none of these are based on traditional house system of India advocated in SSS and BPHS. Majority of users of these softwares do not know this fact.

House system in JHora is replication of Swiss Ephemeris software edited by Dieter Koch, who is a tropicalist but is well versed in sidereal astrology also. Dieter Koch took ideas from wester "experts". most of whom were &nbsp;"historians" &nbsp;of science having no interest in astrology and therefore knowingly or unknowingly distorted history of astronomy / astrology. Dieter Koch had no interest in or knowledge of SSS / BPHS house system and this shortcoming of SWEPH was copied into JHORA because PVR used equal house division and provided unequal house systems only for others.

Another problem was the deliberately spurious version of Pt Sitaram Jha whh deleted the chapter of house division from BPHS just because Pt Sitaram Jha used equal house system, and Santhanam preferred Pt Sitaram Jha's version instead of better versions available to him because Santhanam also preferred equal house division, like a majority of astrologers who found equal house system to be easy and fast and therefore created a wrong tradition. PVR demanded Chowkhamba's version of BPHS. I emailed him that chapter on house division in the Chowkhamba edition which was deleted in Pt Sitaram Jha's edition, and then PVR provided this option also in JHora, but unfortunately under the label "SSS" version, although I had not sent him SSS, I had sent him proof from BPHS. SSS gives formulas for computing lagna and Dashama only, while BPHS gives clear cut method for computing all houses. PVR never tested this system, hence he provuded this traditional Vedic system under "HOUSES" &nbsp;Tab but did not give the D1 chart for it. One needs to make D1 chart manually with the help of data provided in JHora's Houses Tab (SSS option, although it is BPHS option in fact).

-VJ

[RishiRahul]

Dear Vinay ji,

Since I do not possess the 'chowkhamba edition' I am at a loss.

Can you say if the jhora has the Sripati house division properly constructed. You could p.m. me if would not like to state it here

I, personally, am not in favour of the 'true vedic' included there.

Rishi

[Vinay Jha]

Dear Vinay ji,

Since I do not possess the 'chowkhamba edition' I am at a loss.

Can you say if the jhora has the Sripati house division properly constructed. You could p.m. me if would not like to state it here :)

I, personally, am not in favour of the 'true vedic' included there.

Rishi

What is the meaning of &nbsp;"the 'true vedic' included there" ? &nbsp;I do not find any "true vedic" option in JHora's Houses Types.

Sripati method is wrongly propagated. The BPHS hous system is used by all traditional astrologers for making the Bhaavachalita. Other methods are modern innovations, including the so-called Sripati system. This BPHS method is shown as &nbsp;"SSS house system" &nbsp;in JHora. It should be labeled "SSS + BPHS" house system, because the original source of computation of Lagna and Dashama is SSS, and the most ancient known source of house system is BPHS.

I provided all references from various editions of BPHS in VA yahoo group of PVR last year. I left that forum because of attacks on me for advocating BPHS house system which PVR still calls SSS house system, although I sent him scanned copy of Chowkhamba's BPHS system. PVR could not make full use of SSS due to his house system. But his D20 is running exalted Venus, hence he will do good in whatever direction he works.

JHora is still the best Vedic Astrology software, better than commercial softwares. But it possesses some drawbacks which forced me to return to software making after many years. Next version of Kundalee software is ready for distribution, but it is 105 MB in size and can be uploaded and downloaded in parts (like Swiss Ephemeris). This version of Kundalee contains Drik option based on Swiss Ephemeris (which is the source of JHora's Drik version). JHora has many goodies absent is Kundalee, such as many additional dashaas and yogas, but Kundalee is better in three respects : (1) its D1-bhavachalita house system which is absent in JHora's chart mode and can be manually drawn from data in JHora, (2) D30, which is wrong in JHora and PVR has promised to debug it in next release, (3) user friendly presentation which makes chart reading easier. I hope PVR will soon provide these features in JHora which will relieve me from software making.

-VJ

[RishiRahul]

Dear Vinay ji,

Since I do not possess the 'chowkhamba edition' I am at a loss.

Can you say if the jhora has the Sripati house division properly constructed. You could p.m. me if would not like to state it here

I, personally, am not in favour of the 'true vedic' included there.

Rishi

What is the meaning of  "the 'true vedic' included there" ?  I do not find any "true vedic" option in JHora's Houses Types.

Sripati method is wrongly propagated. The BPHS hous system is used by all traditional astrologers for making the Bhaavachalita. Other methods are modern innovations, including the so-called Sripati system. This BPHS method is shown as  "SSS house system"  in JHora. It should be labeled "SSS + BPHS" house system, because the original source of computation of Lagna and Dashama is SSS, and the most ancient known source of house system is BPHS.

I provided all references from various editions of BPHS in VA yahoo group of PVR last year. I left that forum because of attacks on me for advocating BPHS house system which PVR still calls SSS house system, although I sent him scanned copy of Chowkhamba's BPHS system. PVR could not make full use of SSS due to his house system. But his D20 is running exalted Venus, hence he will do good in whatever direction he works.

JHora is still the best Vedic Astrology software, better than commercial softwares. But it possesses some drawbacks which forced me to return to software making after many years. Next version of Kundalee software is ready for distribution, but it is 105 MB in size and can be uploaded and downloaded in parts (like Swiss Ephemeris). This version of Kundalee contains Drik option based on Swiss Ephemeris (which is the source of JHora's Drik version). JHora has many goodies absent is Kundalee, such as many additional dashaas and yogas, but Kundalee is better in three respects : (1) its D1-bhavachalita house system which is absent in JHora's chart mode and can be manually drawn from data in JHora, (2) D30, which is wrong in JHora and PVR has promised to debug it in next release, (3) user friendly presentation which makes chart reading easier. I hope PVR will soon provide these features in JHora which will relieve me from software making.

-VJ

Oh! I was talking about parashari/true vedic in version 7.4.

I am earnestly & anxiously waiting for the release of Kundli!!\Do let us/me know when its released.

I thought bhavachalit based on D1 was included in jhora?

Thanks for the other informations!

Rishi

[Vinay Jha]

Dear Vinay ji,

Since I do not possess the 'chowkhamba edition' I am at a loss.

Can you say if the jhora has the Sripati house division properly constructed. You could p.m. me if would not like to state it here :)

I, personally, am not in favour of the 'true vedic' included there.

Rishi

What is the meaning of  "the 'true vedic' included there" ?  I do not find any "true vedic" option in JHora's Houses Types.

Sripati method is wrongly propagated. The BPHS hous system is used by all traditional astrologers for making the Bhaavachalita. Other methods are modern innovations, including the so-called Sripati system. This BPHS method is shown as  "SSS house system"  in JHora. It should be labeled "SSS + BPHS" house system, because the original source of computation of Lagna and Dashama is SSS, and the most ancient known source of house system is BPHS.

I provided all references from various editions of BPHS in VA yahoo group of PVR last year. I left that forum because of attacks on me for advocating BPHS house system which PVR still calls SSS house system, although I sent him scanned copy of Chowkhamba's BPHS system. PVR could not make full use of SSS due to his house system. But his D20 is running exalted Venus, hence he will do good in whatever direction he works.

JHora is still the best Vedic Astrology software, better than commercial softwares. But it possesses some drawbacks which forced me to return to software making after many years. Next version of Kundalee software is ready for distribution, but it is 105 MB in size and can be uploaded and downloaded in parts (like Swiss Ephemeris). This version of Kundalee contains Drik option based on Swiss Ephemeris (which is the source of JHora's Drik version). JHora has many goodies absent is Kundalee, such as many additional dashaas and yogas, but Kundalee is better in three respects : (1) its D1-bhavachalita house system which is absent in JHora's chart mode and can be manually drawn from data in JHora, (2) D30, which is wrong in JHora and PVR has promised to debug it in next release, (3) user friendly presentation which makes chart reading easier. I hope PVR will soon provide these features in JHora which will relieve me from software making.

-VJ

Oh! I was talking about parashari/true vedic in version 7.4.

I am earnestly & anxiously waiting for the release of Kundli!!\Do let us/me know when its released.

I thought bhavachalit based on D1 was included in jhora? :smt017

Thanks for the other informations!

Rishi

There was a slip : I should have written "his (PVR's) &nbsp;D24 is running exalted Venus".

Sage Parashara's method is truly Vedic.

There are many types of D1 currently plaguing computers and most of these varieties are given in JHora. The only major absentee was SSS-BPHS variety known to all traditional jyotishis. After I supplied scanned copy and programming code, PVR readily included it also in JHora, but only under &nbsp;"House" &nbsp;Tab at the bottom of main page. If you select options as recommended by Vinay Jha, the house start-cusp-end data under House Tab will be accurate, but the D1 chart when set in bhaavachalita mode does not reflect this data under borderline situations, i.e., when cusps are near rashi borders. If you manually drwae the D1 with this Houses data in the mode given under my name, you will find that under aforementioned borderline situations some rashis may fail to occupy any cusp at all and some other rashis may occupy two successive cusps. Such a chart is not presented in chart mode of JHora's D1, although the cusp data is accurate. It happened because PVR had no interest in this type of D1 and argued against it, but agreed to give it in JHora after I sent him scanned copy of Chowkhamba's BPHS (which Rohiniranjan Ji imported from India after I pushed this point, but he is also maintaining silence because he does not like controversies).

Kundalee's latest version is being distributed through CD, its zipped version being of 47 MB. But I have failed in uploading it at my former site due to reasons not known to me. I need to get some new website for uploading it. Kundalee can also be uploaded and downloaded in parts, biggest zipped file being of 17 MB.

-VJ

[Rohiniranjan]

...

There was a slip : I should have written "his (PVR's)  D24 is running exalted Venus".

Sage Parashara's method is truly Vedic.

There are many types of D1 currently plaguing computers and most of these varieties are given in JHora. The only major absentee was SSS-BPHS variety known to all traditional jyotishis. After I supplied scanned copy and programming code, PVR readily included it also in JHora, but only under  "House"  Tab at the bottom of main page. If you select options as recommended by Vinay Jha, the house start-cusp-end data under House Tab will be accurate, but the D1 chart when set in bhaavachalita mode does not reflect this data under borderline situations, i.e., when cusps are near rashi borders. If you manually drwae the D1 with this Houses data in the mode given under my name, you will find that under aforementioned borderline situations some rashis may fail to occupy any cusp at all and some other rashis may occupy two successive cusps. Such a chart is not presented in chart mode of JHora's D1, although the cusp data is accurate. It happened because PVR had no interest in this type of D1 and argued against it, but agreed to give it in JHora after I sent him scanned copy of Chowkhamba's BPHS (which Rohiniranjan Ji imported from India after I pushed this point, but he is also maintaining silence because he does not like controversies).
Kundalee's latest version is being distributed through CD, its zipped version being of 47 MB. But I have failed in uploading it at my former site due to reasons not known to me. I need to get some new website for uploading it. Kundalee can also be uploaded and downloaded in parts, biggest zipped file being of 17 MB.

-VJ

Dear Vinay,

I sometimes sense that you overestimate me and it sometimes feels to me (must be my bhram etc) that you feel that I have let you down and not given you the support that I should have. As I have repeatedly told everyone, I am a very ordinary human being but folks imagine too much rather than believing me. I am not putting on an act of 'false modesty' or have any interest with astro-politics etc. Yes it is true I have acquired the copy of Pandit Jha's version (let us give the translator-interpreter more credit rather than the publisher press!), but I have not assimilated it from A to Z. Quite frankly, I have not even looked at the chapters which deal with the erection of a chart and the 'ganit' elements. Both of you, you certainly and Rishi too it seems are discussing an area which in a sense is new to me. The phenomenon that you are describing namely interception of a sign, and the opposite where a sign stretches and covers the cusps of two subsequent houses is associated with latitudes more and more as we move north or south of equator, and is well known to tropical astrologers who use many different kinds of unequal house divisions, some thirty or so from what I recall from earlier dabblings. All of these house systems take on rather erratic distributions in very northerly nations and collapse at the poles, obviously.

While seemingly mathematically more precise, even Sripati/Porphyrii systems have always felt to me as approximations. They use 'averaging' or trisecting the measured or calculated points and these generally are the cusp or spashta of the first (lagna) and the tenth (dasham which is different from the western Medium Coeli cusp, though close in many cases). Then the 4th and 7th are derived from that (180 degrees therefrom) and the four quadrants so created are trisected to derive the cusps for the remaining eight house cusps. And the convention works in many hands and I am happy with that.

The equal (Ptolemaic) house system is even simpler and just uses the lagna cusp (1) and derives the houses by assuming all are thirty degrees wide. Ptolemy took the cusp as the beginning point of a house while many jyotishis use it as 'the candle in the middle of the room, illuminating the rest of the room" as N.C. Lahiri described it. Since there is the concept of the 'orb' or zone of influence that most believe in as obvious from the consideration of conjunctions etc, in the west and eastern systems, I intuitively am more comfortable with the cusp being in the middle of the room, rather than being the "door" leading into the room. I don't even know really what the different scriptures say on that matter, even if I care. My approach has always been pragmatic and applied. I believe in beginning somewhere and fine-tuning the system as I go, rather than trying to become theoretically perfect and then finding that the engine still does not turn and all the study time was kind of misspent! Just a peasant's approach but being an 'applied' kind of guy, that has been my approach. Whether scholars and academicians agree or not.

Motivated by that mentality of mine and so on, I had in good faith always advised you that the FIRST order of business (just using the expression and not literally! I know you are much above all that mundane level and your personal needs are simple to nil due to your austere life style for which I admire and respect you, personally and always have)-- the first thing that is needed is the 'tool'. With PVR's collaboration for whatever reason on his part (let us not go there again!) the tool was quickly readied and I think you had mentioned that as per your thinking, it was 99% of more closer to what was needed to make it perfect. That is a very high percentage of achievement.

However, it seems that that remaining fraction of one percent is significant and hence you rewrote the software and had to do the entire work all over again. Which is commendable in terms of your dedication to your project, etc.

I was personally very hopeful, for you, and Narasimha's initial enthusiasm was very encouraging and I had acquired the software and was ready to do some experimentation, but then his 'second thoughts' sharing on one of the forums was very disappointing to me personally and I decided that I am simply too old, and Jyotish now seems to be bristling with younger people who all seem to know what they are doing and I am hopefuly that if you can encourage Jyotish youth to join you in your project, then you shall be able to accomplish a lot. I will be happy to observe and cheer you and the younger generation of Jyotish from my chair.

I have always wished you well and all the best of success and there is no reason why I would feel otherwise in future. And that goes not just for your SSS project but any and all projects that you are involved in, teaching jyotish, translating old and rare sanskrit or other vernacular literature and your service to humanity and thereby GOD.

May MA always bless you!

Love, Light, Sincerity,

[Vinay Jha]

...

There was a slip : I should have written "his (PVR's)  D24 is running exalted Venus".

Sage Parashara's method is truly Vedic.

There are many types of D1 currently plaguing computers and most of these varieties are given in JHora. The only major absentee was SSS-BPHS variety known to all traditional jyotishis. After I supplied scanned copy and programming code, PVR readily included it also in JHora, but only under  "House"  Tab at the bottom of main page. If you select options as recommended by Vinay Jha, the house start-cusp-end data under House Tab will be accurate, but the D1 chart when set in bhaavachalita mode does not reflect this data under borderline situations, i.e., when cusps are near rashi borders. If you manually drwae the D1 with this Houses data in the mode given under my name, you will find that under aforementioned borderline situations some rashis may fail to occupy any cusp at all and some other rashis may occupy two successive cusps. Such a chart is not presented in chart mode of JHora's D1, although the cusp data is accurate. It happened because PVR had no interest in this type of D1 and argued against it, but agreed to give it in JHora after I sent him scanned copy of Chowkhamba's BPHS (which Rohiniranjan Ji imported from India after I pushed this point, but he is also maintaining silence because he does not like controversies).
Kundalee's latest version is being distributed through CD, its zipped version being of 47 MB. But I have failed in uploading it at my former site due to reasons not known to me. I need to get some new website for uploading it. Kundalee can also be uploaded and downloaded in parts, biggest zipped file being of 17 MB.

-VJ

Dear Vinay,

I sometimes sense that you overestimate me :-) and it sometimes feels to me (must be my bhram etc) that you feel that I have let you down and not given you the support that I should have. As I have repeatedly told everyone, I am a very ordinary human being but folks imagine too much rather than believing me. I am not putting on an act of 'false modesty' or have any interest with astro-politics etc. Yes it is true I have acquired the copy of Pandit Jha's version (let us give the translator-interpreter more credit rather than the publisher press!), but I have not assimilated it from A to Z. Quite frankly, I have not even looked at the chapters which deal with the erection of a chart and the 'ganit' elements. Both of you, you certainly and Rishi too it seems are discussing an area which in a sense is new to me. The phenomenon that you are describing namely interception of a sign, and the opposite where a sign stretches and covers the cusps of two subsequent houses is associated with latitudes more and more as we move north or south of equator, and is well known to tropical astrologers who use many different kinds of unequal house divisions, some thirty or so from what I recall from earlier dabblings. All of these house systems take on rather erratic distributions in very northerly nations and collapse at the poles, obviously.

While seemingly mathematically more precise, even Sripati/Porphyrii systems have always felt to me as approximations. They use 'averaging' or trisecting the measured or calculated points and these generally are the cusp or spashta of the first (lagna) and the tenth (dasham which is different from the western Medium Coeli cusp, though close in many cases). Then the 4th and 7th are derived from that (180 degrees therefrom) and the four quadrants so created are trisected to derive the cusps for the remaining eight house cusps. And the convention works in many hands and I am happy with that.

The equal (Ptolemaic) house system is even simpler and just uses the lagna cusp (1) and derives the houses by assuming all are thirty degrees wide. Ptolemy took the cusp as the beginning point of a house while many jyotishis use it as 'the candle in the middle of the room, illuminating the rest of the room" as N.C. Lahiri described it. Since there is the concept of the 'orb' or zone of influence that most believe in as obvious from the consideration of conjunctions etc, in the west and eastern systems, I intuitively am more comfortable with the cusp being in the middle of the room, rather than being the "door" leading into the room. I don't even know really what the different scriptures say on that matter, even if I care. My approach has always been pragmatic and applied. I believe in beginning somewhere and fine-tuning the system as I go, rather than trying to become theoretically perfect and then finding that the engine still does not turn and all the study time was kind of misspent! Just a peasant's approach but being an 'applied' kind of guy, that has been my approach. Whether scholars and academicians agree or not.

Motivated by that mentality of mine and so on, I had in good faith always advised you that the FIRST order of business (just using the expression and not literally! I know you are much above all that mundane level and your personal needs are simple to nil due to your austere life style for which I admire and respect you, personally and always have)-- the first thing that is needed is the 'tool'. With PVR's collaboration for whatever reason on his part (let us not go there again!) the tool was quickly readied and I think you had mentioned that as per your thinking, it was 99% of more closer to what was needed to make it perfect. That is a very high percentage of achievement.

However, it seems that that remaining fraction of one percent is significant and hence you rewrote the software and had to do the entire work all over again. Which is commendable in terms of your dedication to your project, etc.

I was personally very hopeful, for you, and Narasimha's initial enthusiasm was very encouraging and I had acquired the software and was ready to do some experimentation, but then his 'second thoughts' sharing on one of the forums was very disappointing to me personally and I decided that I am simply too old, and Jyotish now seems to be bristling with younger people who all seem to know what they are doing and I am hopefuly that if you can encourage Jyotish youth to join you in your project, then you shall be able to accomplish a lot. I will be happy to observe and cheer you and the younger generation of Jyotish from my chair.

I have always wished you well and all the best of success and there is no reason why I would feel otherwise in future. And that goes not just for your SSS project but any and all projects that you are involved in, teaching jyotish, translating old and rare sanskrit or other vernacular literature and your service to humanity and thereby GOD.

May MA always bless you!

Love, Light, Sincerity,

Dear Dada,

I have no intention of either imposing my ideas or softwares on anyone, or arguing with you on any issue. My priority is perfecting my software and not marketing it. For the first time, I am now disclosing that I never wanted Kundalee to be distributed on internet. Against my wish, when I first launched it &nbsp;on internet at the insistence of my friends, some persons having incompatible operating systems or having viruses in their machines started complaining and while trying to debug the actually flawless software which never malfunctioned before early 2009 (when I first launched it on internet, I was distributing it through CD since 2005-6), my reluctance to distribute Kundalee to the undeserving grew due to the abusive behavious of some modernisers. Before that, I always gave it only to those whose horoscopes or characters I had checked. I am for the few. My late Guru ji was far more strict than me. Now, I have relaxed slightly.

Therefore, please rest assured that I am not going to disturb you in your old age by imposing my work on you. Here I am not arguing against you, but merely putting two things straight :

(1)
PVR's &nbsp;"second thoughts" came 13 months later. If you pulled back due to his "second thoughts", what prevented you from testing &nbsp;SSS &nbsp;during those 13 months? I do not demand any answer, because I do not really want you to test SSS. SSS will survive in spite of all of us keeping away from it.

(2)
Ptolemy never advocated ideas some moderners are knowingly or unknowingly putting in his dead mouth. He dealt with ascendant &c in detail, but never said ascendant is start or middle of a house, because he did not write for fools : his work was for advanced astrologers. During Renaissance, the value of ayanamsha was 15 degrees and tropicalists shifted ascendant to house start and made good forecasts, which strengthened tropicalism in astrology. Before that, tropicalism had no trace in astrology in any part of the world, despite false claims of some moderners. There is no proof. &nbsp;Read Tetrabiblos in which the commentator gives following explanation of Ptolemy's system :

"the central perpendicular line is the meridian, or cusp of the 10th house; the other short lines, cutting the equator transversely, are the cusps of the other houses; that of the 1st house being the eastern horizon; that of the 7th, the western horizon"

Meridian was the CUSP and not the start of 10th house, hence Lagna was the cusp of first house.

-VJ

[Rohiniranjan]

I had sincerely tried Kundalee for several times, on different computers, including a brand new machine out of the box. All attempts failed and you did mention that for some reasons it did not work on some computers. Others also reported generally that they had problems installing your code.

So I was cautious and did not wish to spend more time in tinkering about, so I waited. After Narasimha started his project and did manage to get the code working and part of JHORA, I was encouraged by his initial findings and waited to see how he fared.

I am essentially a patient man and do not rush into new projects which are radically different etc.

That in a nutshell is what I wrote to you earlier too. Here it goes again!

Thanks for your other point, which I will take into consideration,later.

Thanks

RR

...

There was a slip : I should have written "his (PVR's)  D24 is running exalted Venus".

Sage Parashara's method is truly Vedic.

There are many types of D1 currently plaguing computers and most of these varieties are given in JHora. The only major absentee was SSS-BPHS variety known to all traditional jyotishis. After I supplied scanned copy and programming code, PVR readily included it also in JHora, but only under  "House"  Tab at the bottom of main page. If you select options as recommended by Vinay Jha, the house start-cusp-end data under House Tab will be accurate, but the D1 chart when set in bhaavachalita mode does not reflect this data under borderline situations, i.e., when cusps are near rashi borders. If you manually drwae the D1 with this Houses data in the mode given under my name, you will find that under aforementioned borderline situations some rashis may fail to occupy any cusp at all and some other rashis may occupy two successive cusps. Such a chart is not presented in chart mode of JHora's D1, although the cusp data is accurate. It happened because PVR had no interest in this type of D1 and argued against it, but agreed to give it in JHora after I sent him scanned copy of Chowkhamba's BPHS (which Rohiniranjan Ji imported from India after I pushed this point, but he is also maintaining silence because he does not like controversies).
Kundalee's latest version is being distributed through CD, its zipped version being of 47 MB. But I have failed in uploading it at my former site due to reasons not known to me. I need to get some new website for uploading it. Kundalee can also be uploaded and downloaded in parts, biggest zipped file being of 17 MB.

-VJ

Dear Vinay,

I sometimes sense that you overestimate me and it sometimes feels to me (must be my bhram etc) that you feel that I have let you down and not given you the support that I should have. As I have repeatedly told everyone, I am a very ordinary human being but folks imagine too much rather than believing me. I am not putting on an act of 'false modesty' or have any interest with astro-politics etc. Yes it is true I have acquired the copy of Pandit Jha's version (let us give the translator-interpreter more credit rather than the publisher press!), but I have not assimilated it from A to Z. Quite frankly, I have not even looked at the chapters which deal with the erection of a chart and the 'ganit' elements. Both of you, you certainly and Rishi too it seems are discussing an area which in a sense is new to me. The phenomenon that you are describing namely interception of a sign, and the opposite where a sign stretches and covers the cusps of two subsequent houses is associated with latitudes more and more as we move north or south of equator, and is well known to tropical astrologers who use many different kinds of unequal house divisions, some thirty or so from what I recall from earlier dabblings. All of these house systems take on rather erratic distributions in very northerly nations and collapse at the poles, obviously.

While seemingly mathematically more precise, even Sripati/Porphyrii systems have always felt to me as approximations. They use 'averaging' or trisecting the measured or calculated points and these generally are the cusp or spashta of the first (lagna) and the tenth (dasham which is different from the western Medium Coeli cusp, though close in many cases). Then the 4th and 7th are derived from that (180 degrees therefrom) and the four quadrants so created are trisected to derive the cusps for the remaining eight house cusps. And the convention works in many hands and I am happy with that.

The equal (Ptolemaic) house system is even simpler and just uses the lagna cusp (1) and derives the houses by assuming all are thirty degrees wide. Ptolemy took the cusp as the beginning point of a house while many jyotishis use it as 'the candle in the middle of the room, illuminating the rest of the room" as N.C. Lahiri described it. Since there is the concept of the 'orb' or zone of influence that most believe in as obvious from the consideration of conjunctions etc, in the west and eastern systems, I intuitively am more comfortable with the cusp being in the middle of the room, rather than being the "door" leading into the room. I don't even know really what the different scriptures say on that matter, even if I care. My approach has always been pragmatic and applied. I believe in beginning somewhere and fine-tuning the system as I go, rather than trying to become theoretically perfect and then finding that the engine still does not turn and all the study time was kind of misspent! Just a peasant's approach but being an 'applied' kind of guy, that has been my approach. Whether scholars and academicians agree or not.

Motivated by that mentality of mine and so on, I had in good faith always advised you that the FIRST order of business (just using the expression and not literally! I know you are much above all that mundane level and your personal needs are simple to nil due to your austere life style for which I admire and respect you, personally and always have)-- the first thing that is needed is the 'tool'. With PVR's collaboration for whatever reason on his part (let us not go there again!) the tool was quickly readied and I think you had mentioned that as per your thinking, it was 99% of more closer to what was needed to make it perfect. That is a very high percentage of achievement.

However, it seems that that remaining fraction of one percent is significant and hence you rewrote the software and had to do the entire work all over again. Which is commendable in terms of your dedication to your project, etc.

I was personally very hopeful, for you, and Narasimha's initial enthusiasm was very encouraging and I had acquired the software and was ready to do some experimentation, but then his 'second thoughts' sharing on one of the forums was very disappointing to me personally and I decided that I am simply too old, and Jyotish now seems to be bristling with younger people who all seem to know what they are doing and I am hopefuly that if you can encourage Jyotish youth to join you in your project, then you shall be able to accomplish a lot. I will be happy to observe and cheer you and the younger generation of Jyotish from my chair.

I have always wished you well and all the best of success and there is no reason why I would feel otherwise in future. And that goes not just for your SSS project but any and all projects that you are involved in, teaching jyotish, translating old and rare sanskrit or other vernacular literature and your service to humanity and thereby GOD.

May MA always bless you!

Love, Light, Sincerity,

Dear Dada,

I have no intention of either imposing my ideas or softwares on anyone, or arguing with you on any issue. My priority is perfecting my software and not marketing it. For the first time, I am now disclosing that I never wanted Kundalee to be distributed on internet. Against my wish, when I first launched it  on internet at the insistence of my friends, some persons having incompatible operating systems or having viruses in their machines started complaining and while trying to debug the actually flawless software which never malfunctioned before early 2009 (when I first launched it on internet, I was distributing it through CD since 2005-6), my reluctance to distribute Kundalee to the undeserving grew due to the abusive behavious of some modernisers. Before that, I always gave it only to those whose horoscopes or characters I had checked. I am for the few. My late Guru ji was far more strict than me. Now, I have relaxed slightly.

Therefore, please rest assured that I am not going to disturb you in your old age by imposing my work on you. Here I am not arguing against you, but merely putting two things straight :

(1)
PVR's  "second thoughts" came 13 months later. If you pulled back due to his "second thoughts", what prevented you from testing  SSS  during those 13 months? I do not demand any answer, because I do not really want you to test SSS. SSS will survive in spite of all of us keeping away from it.

(2)
Ptolemy never advocated ideas some moderners are knowingly or unknowingly putting in his dead mouth. He dealt with ascendant &c in detail, but never said ascendant is start or middle of a house, because he did not write for fools : his work was for advanced astrologers. During Renaissance, the value of ayanamsha was 15 degrees and tropicalists shifted ascendant to house start and made good forecasts, which strengthened tropicalism in astrology. Before that, tropicalism had no trace in astrology in any part of the world, despite false claims of some moderners. There is no proof.  Read Tetrabiblos in which the commentator gives following explanation of Ptolemy's system :

"the central perpendicular line is the meridian, or cusp of the 10th house; the other short lines, cutting the equator transversely, are the cusps of the other houses; that of the 1st house being the eastern horizon; that of the 7th, the western horizon"

Meridian was the CUSP and not the start of 10th house, hence Lagna was the cusp of first house.

-VJ

[Brahma Mihira]

What is the meaning of  "the 'true vedic' included there" ?  I do not find any "true vedic" option in JHora's Houses Types.

Sripati method is wrongly propagated. The BPHS hous system is used by all traditional astrologers for making the Bhaavachalita. Other methods are modern innovations, including the so-called Sripati system. This BPHS method is shown as  "SSS house system"  in JHora. It should be labeled "SSS + BPHS" house system, because the original source of computation of Lagna and Dashama is SSS, and the most ancient known source of house system is BPHS.

I provided all references from various editions of BPHS in VA yahoo group of PVR last year. I left that forum because of attacks on me for advocating BPHS house system which PVR still calls SSS house system, although I sent him scanned copy of Chowkhamba's BPHS system. PVR could not make full use of SSS due to his house system. But his D20 is running exalted Venus, hence he will do good in whatever direction he works.

JHora is still the best Vedic Astrology software, better than commercial softwares. But it possesses some drawbacks which forced me to return to software making after many years. Next version of Kundalee software is ready for distribution, but it is 105 MB in size and can be uploaded and downloaded in parts (like Swiss Ephemeris). This version of Kundalee contains Drik option based on Swiss Ephemeris (which is the source of JHora's Drik version). JHora has many goodies absent is Kundalee, such as many additional dashaas and yogas, but Kundalee is better in three respects :



(1) its D1-bhavachalita house system which is absent in JHora's chart mode and can be manually drawn from data in JHora, (2) D30, which is wrong in JHora and PVR has promised to debug it in next release, (3) user friendly presentation which makes chart reading easier. I hope PVR will soon provide these features in JHora which will relieve me from software making.



-VJ

Dear Sir VJ

How we can download or order CD of your Kundalee software as it is not available in internet?

I like to use true or pure "SSS + BPHS" system as I think still JHora don't give pure SSS system.

Thanks!

[Vinay Jha]

Kundalee is made in VB6 language which is a product of Microsoft but now not recognised by Microsoft (for selling its newer products). Hence, Kundalee can run only if Window XP-2 or XP-3 is the operating system and VB6 portion of Visual Studio - 6 needs to be installed, after which Kundalee will run smoothly. Kundalee needs 75 MB, half of which is needed by physical astronomy (Drik) tables of Swiss Ephemeris / JPL (NASA). But VB6 needs somewhat more space, and cannot be supplied by me on internet.

Even versions of Windows XP-2 or XP-3 updated through internet will prevent Setup.exe from running, because Microsoft is deliberately preventing installation of programs made in VB6. &nbsp;It is a deliberate mischief by Microsoft, as a result of which millions of softwares created in VB6 are facing problems. Hence, the only alternative is to install VB6 and original version of Windows-XP2 which has not been updated after 31-12-2008 (which is no longer sold and can only be borrowed from others).

-VJ

[RishiRahul]

Regarding cusps=

I, personally, am comfortable with bhava madhya being the middle of the room, as Vedic astrologer are.
The westerns, as far as I know, follow the same concept, but calls/names this point as the begining of the house.

In any case I am convinced of the 'bhava madhya' theory while using Vedic; but strangely...
Krishnamurthy uses Placidus, and while calculating position of subs and sub subs in houses he takes this 'bhavamadhya' as 'bhava arambha' start of the house.

While using K.P. I have found this understanding works well! while using it on the dasa planets; and while doing horary; but did not find much truth while using it on natal cusps, and have the desire to experiment this sometime.
I remember Narasimha ji experimenting with the concept of Krishnamurthy and adapting it to Vedic charts, and he claimed results.

K.P. says that the sub and the sub sub of the first house cuspal point elaborates the physical features of a person; particularly the sub sub's constellation and sign.



Bhrhma mitra may find this interesting.

RishiRahul