House Divisions in Vedic & Astrology Classics

[Vinay Jha]

If Jupiter comes close to lagna's middle in a varga chart or in transit, Jupiter will become more powerful. Then, houses aspected by Jupiter will get this additional benefit, ie, increased benefits from Jupiter. Karkata is not among aspected houses, but Jupiter is exalted there and therefore the house containing Karka is included in the list of strong houses.

Prof V K Choudhary's approach is a distorted simplification of Ptolemy. Every serious Vedic astrologer must read Tetrabiblos, because Tetrabiblos was based on BPHS, although some portions are not found in BPHS now.

Avove theory of a planet coming closer to lagna is not the full theory, in which many conditions and alternatives modify this rule which Prof Choudhary either did not know or neglected. Tetrabiblos contains the full theory which is absent in BPHS.

-VJ

[RishiRahul]

If Jupiter comes close to lagna's middle in a varga chart or in transit, Jupiter will become more powerful. Then, houses aspected by Jupiter will get this additional benefit, ie, increased benefits from Jupiter. Karkata is not among aspected houses, but Jupiter is exalted there and therefore the house containing Karka is included in the list of strong houses.

Prof V K Choudhary's approach is a distorted simplification of Ptolemy. Every serious Vedic astrologer must read Tetrabiblos, because Tetrabiblos was based on BPHS, although some portions are not found in BPHS now.

Avove theory of a planet coming closer to lagna is not the full theory, in which many conditions and alternatives modify this rule which Prof Choudhary either did not know or neglected. Tetrabiblos contains the full theory which is absent in BPHS.

-VJ

Dear Vinay ji,

This would be a more straightforward link to Tetrabiblios:=
http://www.sacred-texts.com/astro/ptb/index.htm

After going through the ;system's approach' thing I did not find it attractive, and probably have my views similar to yours....

In which chapter of tetrabiblios can we find the other "conditions and alternatives"?

Thanks,

Rishi

[Rohiniranjan]

If Jupiter comes close to lagna's middle in a varga chart or in transit, Jupiter will become more powerful. Then, houses aspected by Jupiter will get this additional benefit, ie, increased benefits from Jupiter. Karkata is not among aspected houses, but Jupiter is exalted there and therefore the house containing Karka is included in the list of strong houses.

Prof V K Choudhary's approach is a distorted simplification of Ptolemy. Every serious Vedic astrologer must read Tetrabiblos, because Tetrabiblos was based on BPHS, although some portions are not found in BPHS now.

Avove theory of a planet coming closer to lagna is not the full theory, in which many conditions and alternatives modify this rule which Prof Choudhary either did not know or neglected. Tetrabiblos contains the full theory which is absent in BPHS.

-VJ

Dear Vinay ji,

This would be a more straightforward link to Tetrabiblios:=
http://www.sacred-texts.com/astro/ptb/index.htm

After going through the ;system's approach' thing I did not find it attractive, and probably have my views similar to yours....

In which chapter of tetrabiblios can we find the other "conditions and alternatives"?

Thanks,

Rishi

I could be wrong!

When TB was written by CT=TM...

The TWo ZODIACS WERE SYNCHRONIZED!

Vinay ji is right!  TB must be studied before being resisted, just because Ptolemy and Claudius are not 'names' that sound Indian or Sanskrit...!!

[RishiRahul]

If Jupiter comes close to lagna's middle in a varga chart or in transit, Jupiter will become more powerful. Then, houses aspected by Jupiter will get this additional benefit, ie, increased benefits from Jupiter. Karkata is not among aspected houses, but Jupiter is exalted there and therefore the house containing Karka is included in the list of strong houses.

Prof V K Choudhary's approach is a distorted simplification of Ptolemy. Every serious Vedic astrologer must read Tetrabiblos, because Tetrabiblos was based on BPHS, although some portions are not found in BPHS now.

Avove theory of a planet coming closer to lagna is not the full theory, in which many conditions and alternatives modify this rule which Prof Choudhary either did not know or neglected. Tetrabiblos contains the full theory which is absent in BPHS.

-VJ

Dear Vinay ji,

This would be a more straightforward link to Tetrabiblios:=
http://www.sacred-texts.com/astro/ptb/index.htm

After going through the ;system's approach' thing I did not find it attractive, and probably have my views similar to yours....

In which chapter of tetrabiblios can we find the other "conditions and alternatives"?

Thanks,

Rishi

I could be wrong!

When TB was written by CT=TM...

The TWo ZODIACS WERE SYNCHRONIZED!

Vinay ji is right!  TB must be studied before being resisted, just because Ptolemy and Claudius are not 'names' that sound Indian or Sanskrit...!!

Dear Dada and Vinay ji,

I was not trying to dis believe what Vinay ji said.

Seondly, I always believed that the 2 zodiacs were synchronised at one time, probably lost in History; and mentioned a proof somewhere; either in mb or in a p.m. to Dada.
I have never said this 'openly' as it would not be acceptable to others.

In this world we have to be acceptable to be understood. Only then we can strive to change others.

Religions and politics have created The many divides in History, and Will continue to do so when given a chance; sometimes for power, sometimes for progressive thinking, change, etc etc.

(1)I did not understand CT=TM

If this easy link is not THE one, can I have the link where BOTH WERE SYNCHRONISED Please.

Rishi

[Vinay Jha]

Rishi ji,

The best link to Tetrabiblos is what I gave, it is the authoritative version, containing detailed discussion of various interpretations, esp in the context of present discussion. I am repeating :

"The idea of 'most effective point' was borrowed from western astrology, esp from Ptolemy's classic 'Tetrabiblos' regarded as Bible of western astrology, in which there is a complicated theory of "The Prorogatory Places" (Book-III, sec. 12-15). V K Choudhary simplified Ptolemy's complicated theory.

Tetrabiblost should be freely downloaded from Wilbour Hall website of Brown University : http://www.wilbourhall.org/

Ayanamsha was zero around 100 to 600 AD according to various modern theories. Traditional Indian view puts zero ayanamsha in AD 499, while NC Lahiri put it in AD 285. Ptolemy's age fell within this period. Hence, there was no appreciable difference between tropical and sidereal zodiacs. Therefore Rohiniranjan is right in suggesting that Tetrabiblos was written when both Tropicalism and SIderealism could be applied with equal validity to astrology.

But I do not accept this modern distinction bewtween Tropicalism and Siderealism. It is a modern figment of imagination invented by western tropicalists in reaction to Fagan and Bradley who tried to revive Chaldean Astrology in a distorted manner. Vedic Astrology is based on Fixed Sky and not on Fixed stars, the apparent motion in stars is called ayanaamsha. But Vedic Astrology needs Tropical computations as well for getting sunrise and ishtakaala, lagna and other bhaavas, etc.

Tropicalists

[Brahma Mihira]

Thanks for nice links, however 'Tetrabiblos' was difficult to find on wilbourhall website, yes,

http://www.sacred-texts.com/astro/ptb/index.htm

is easy link, but can read only in online.

[RishiRahul]

Rishi ji,

The best link to Tetrabiblos is what I gave, it is the authoritative version, containing detailed discussion of various interpretations, esp in the context of present discussion. I am repeating :

"The idea of 'most effective point' was borrowed from western astrology, esp from Ptolemy's classic 'Tetrabiblos' regarded as Bible of western astrology, in which there is a complicated theory of "The Prorogatory Places" (Book-III, sec. 12-15). V K Choudhary simplified Ptolemy's complicated theory.

Tetrabiblost should be freely downloaded from Wilbour Hall website of Brown University : http://www.wilbourhall.org/

Ayanamsha was zero around 100 to 600 AD according to various modern theories. Traditional Indian view puts zero ayanamsha in AD 499, while NC Lahiri put it in AD 285. Ptolemy's age fell within this period. Hence, there was no appreciable difference between tropical and sidereal zodiacs. Therefore Rohiniranjan is right in suggesting that Tetrabiblos was written when both Tropicalism and SIderealism could be applied with equal validity to astrology.

But I do not accept this modern distinction bewtween Tropicalism and Siderealism. It is a modern figment of imagination invented by western tropicalists in reaction to Fagan and Bradley who tried to revive Chaldean Astrology in a distorted manner. Vedic Astrology is based on Fixed Sky and not on Fixed stars, the apparent motion in stars is called ayanaamsha. But Vedic Astrology needs Tropical computations as well for getting sunrise and ishtakaala, lagna and other bhaavas, etc.

Tropicalists

Dear Vinay ji,

I consider yourself much much better read than me; Believe me, and I accept this very heartily.

The link http://www.wilbourhall.org/ is working, but am unable to find 'Tetrabiblios'' there, amongst the list of so_o many books.

Need your help.

Rishi

[Vinay Jha]

Wilbour Hall now does not contain Trtrabiblos, but it gives a link to http://www.hellenisticastrology.com/    (two link to Tetrabiblos is given on following webpage :   http://www.hellenisticastrology.com/ast ... s-ptolemy/ ) where you can get much more information on ancient western astrology. One of these two links is :

http://books.google.co.in/books?id=h-nA ... &q&f=false

It is Ashmand's translation in 1822 which I downloaded (13 MB PDF file) from some forgotten site.  It is authorotitave translation, and I believe Sacred Books has reproduced this version honestly, but I have not compared. You can download Tetrabiblos from following links :

http://archive.org/details/ptolemystetrabi00procgoog

http://www.firstload.com/?uniq=8724f9f6 ... s+download

http://www.classicalastrologer.com/tetrabiblos.pdf

http://ebookbrowse.com/claudius-ptolemy ... d235292137

The best version, which I possess, is this :

http://archive.org/stream/ptolemystetra ... 4/mode/2up

Unfortunately, only some initial pages can be read.


-VJ

[RishiRahul]

Thanks Vinayji,

Downloaded Tetrabiblios from your link.

Its crazy that a hardcore traditionalist like You, speak well of Tetrabiblios.
Do you have elastic and flexible palms?:)

Wish other other Hardcore traditionalists Learn that flexible hardcore is better than rigid hardcore!!

Thank you,

Rishi

[Rohiniranjan]

Thanks Vinayji,

Downloaded Tetrabiblios from your link.

Its crazy that a hardcore traditionalist like You, speak well of Tetrabiblios.
Do you have elastic and flexible palms?:)

Wish other other Hardcore traditionalists Learn that flexible hardcore is better than rigid hardcore!!

Thank you,

Rishi

Just using a bit of humor and nothing personal, but Earth has a flexible and liquid core and that creates Volanoes and Tsunamis and Earthquakes

Vinay_ji is very wise, well-read and a sincere and dedicated man!

[RishiRahul]

Thanks Vinayji,

Downloaded Tetrabiblios from your link.

Its crazy that a hardcore traditionalist like You, speak well of Tetrabiblios.
Do you have elastic and flexible palms?:)

Wish other other Hardcore traditionalists Learn that flexible hardcore is better than rigid hardcore!!

Thank you,

Rishi

Just using a bit of humor and nothing personal, but Earth has a flexible and liquid core and that creates Volanoes and Tsunamis and Earthquakes

Vinay_ji is very wise, well-read and a sincere and dedicated man!

Vinay ji...liquid...Tsunami......!

I have made my day!

Soon, I would be posting a study on 'Progressions' and 'retrogression' in the western astrology forum which I promised to do so in the ..mystic reality....with a link in Vedic forum.

It is not ayanamsa sensitive, but when we go further to house cusps..... it would be ayanamsa sensitive.

I f there are at least Dada's and Vinay ji's support/participation in this, it would be productive; of course others should please help too.

Young minds and unbiased minds are required for such studies............!

Rishi

[Rohiniranjan]

...


Vinay ji...liquid...Tsunami......!

I have made my day!

Soon, I would be posting a study on 'Progressions' and 'retrogression' in the western astrology forum which I promised to do so in the ..mystic reality....with a link in Vedic forum.

It is not ayanamsa sensitive, but when we go further to house cusps..... it would be ayanamsa sensitive.

I f there are at least Dada's and Vinay ji's support/participation in this, it would be productive; of course others should please help too.

Young minds and unbiased minds are required for such studies............!

Rishi

HULLO!

Like I said, what I wrote was neither directed at Vinay_ji directly or indirectly, as has been misunderstood by you! Hence I must 'clear the air', as the expression goes!!

I was simply talking about the Earth and its reality! :-(

Good luck with your project and sharing about ayanamsha, progressions and retrogression! One sensitive to ayanamsha, the other equally and simultaneously co-occuring and zodiac-insensitive and hence beyond the 'grip' of ayanamsha!

Please let us know when you have posted your report/explorations.


Love, Light, Astrology,

[Vinay Jha]

Namaste,

>>"Its crazy that a hardcore traditionalist like You, speak well of Tetrabiblios.".

When did I speak well of Tetrabiblos ? I never speak well of Ptolemy or Varah Mihir or Aryabhatta or Kalyan varma or any ancient or modern astrologer of Kaliyuga, including myself. We are all Kaliyugi mortals, full of errors in our mental and physical DNA. I merely said that Tetrabiblos should be read by all Vedic astrologers, because Ptolemy plagiarized many Vedic concepts without acknowledgement. Scientists from Tycho Brahe to Prof RR Newton have conclusively proven that Ptolemy plagiarized star tables of Hipparchus without acknowledgement. Ptolemy was a well's frog who thought that his pond was Medi + Teraanean and earth's centre was near the coast of his hometown Alexandria. But what is the use of abusing the shortcomings of Kaliyugi mortals ? While a student of English literature in university, I learnt that the aim of criticism must be to CRITICALLY  APPRECIATE a work showing that the shortcomings of a person are due to his/her social  milieu and the achievements are due to his/her personal efforts. In spite of all errors in Tetrabiblos, it is a well of ideas which need careful scrutiny and research. Some ideas may be wrong, while others maybe fossils of lost portions of Vedic Jyotisha.

>"Do you have elastic and flexible palms?"

I had  "elastic and flexible palms"  when I was a kid. Perhaps that is why I  "created Volanoes and Tsunamis and Earthquakes" in my home, breaking things and getting beaten up in return.

BTW, I have added Drik-pakshiya option in Kundalee software (NASA's JPL, Swiss Ephemeris, Moshier series, with varieties of ayanamshas). Like JHora, now Kundalee also has both SSS and Drik options. I am now rewriting Kundalee to make it easily installable on recent machines.

-VJ

[RishiRahul]

...


Vinay ji...liquid...Tsunami......!

I have made my day!

Soon, I would be posting a study on 'Progressions' and 'retrogression' in the western astrology forum which I promised to do so in the ..mystic reality....with a link in Vedic forum.

It is not ayanamsa sensitive, but when we go further to house cusps..... it would be ayanamsa sensitive.

I f there are at least Dada's and Vinay ji's support/participation in this, it would be productive; of course others should please help too.

Young minds and unbiased minds are required for such studies............!

Rishi

HULLO!

Like I said, what I wrote was neither directed at Vinay_ji directly or indirectly, as has been misunderstood by you! Hence I must 'clear the air', as the expression goes!!

I was simply talking about the Earth and its reality! :-(

Good luck with your project and sharing about ayanamsha, progressions and retrogression! One sensitive to ayanamsha, the other equally and simultaneously co-occuring and zodiac-insensitive and hence beyond the 'grip' of ayanamsha!

Please let us know when you have posted your report/explorations.


Love, Light, Astrology,

Dear Dada,

I did not mean to  hurt anyone.  Just a pun!

It is not my finding, but an age old western theory well applied to western & eastern; with scope of further research.

Small ayanamas differences may not hold meaning but sharply different ones like sayan & Nirayan.

Rishi

[RishiRahul]

Namaste,

>>"Its crazy that a hardcore traditionalist like You, speak well of Tetrabiblios.".

When did I speak well of Tetrabiblos ? I never speak well of Ptolemy or Varah Mihir or Aryabhatta or Kalyan varma or any ancient or modern astrologer of Kaliyuga, including myself. We are all Kaliyugi mortals, full of errors in our mental and physical DNA. I merely said that Tetrabiblos should be read by all Vedic astrologers, because Ptolemy plagiarized many Vedic concepts without acknowledgement. Scientists from Tycho Brahe to Prof RR Newton have conclusively proven that Ptolemy plagiarized star tables of Hipparchus without acknowledgement. Ptolemy was a well's frog who thought that his pond was Medi + Teraanean and earth's centre was near the coast of his hometown Alexandria. But what is the use of abusing the shortcomings of Kaliyugi mortals ? While a student of English literature in university, I learnt that the aim of criticism must be to CRITICALLY  APPRECIATE a work showing that the shortcomings of a person are due to his/her social  milieu and the achievements are due to his/her personal efforts. In spite of all errors in Tetrabiblos, it is a well of ideas which need careful scrutiny and research. Some ideas may be wrong, while others maybe fossils of lost portions of Vedic Jyotisha.

>"Do you have elastic and flexible palms?"

I had  "elastic and flexible palms"  when I was a kid. Perhaps that is why I  "created Volanoes and Tsunamis and Earthquakes" in my home, breaking things and getting beaten up in return.

BTW, I have added Drik-pakshiya option in Kundalee software (NASA's JPL, Swiss Ephemeris, Moshier series, with varieties of ayanamshas). Like JHora, now Kundalee also has both SSS and Drik options. I am now rewriting Kundalee to make it easily installable on recent machines.

-VJ

Dear Vinay ji,

 +  :)


Wishes for you.

Rishi