###Guru chandal yog###

Rohiniranjan · Post by **Rohiniranjan** » Mon May 21, 2012 9:18 pm

I am a bit surprised that Mr. K.N. Rao made such a broad-sweep statement singling out one combination. But, then we do not know all the details and context of that statement from an interview comment. But neither have I heard that interview, nor is Mr. Rao here to provide all the details and *context*, etc, so I shall not go further on that matter. As they say, "the devil is in the details!"

"Guru-chandal" like other yogas and arishtas is merely a 'spot light' (not necessarily lime-light) is how I see these. One must then examine the role of the planet and nodes in the specific chart and perhaps the chart-specific situation is better understood.

Some consider ketu also to form the GC yoga, others insist that it is only Rahu!

Raman Deep Singh · Post by **Raman Deep Singh** » Tue May 22, 2012 7:27 am

Dear Certain ji,

Lets just stick to this life time only , who knows how many life times we have or we have not gone through

Like all other yogas this yoga also SHUDNT be applied directly and thats true for every yoga or combo or conditions in astrology.no where i hv mentioned that it should not be. I am just deciphering meaning of GC Yoga.

Jupiter as we all know stands for Wisdom.
What you think happens when Rahu gets attached to the wisdom. Kindly share.

Regards,
Raman Deep Singh

Certain wrote:
Raman Deep Singh wrote:Hi,

In one of the interviews KN Rao ji did mention about this yoga and explained about it very well.
That native having this yoga will do fraud/ditch his Guru.. Now this Guru can be his own parents
or his teacher or anyone who z part of his/her life in guarding and guiding him/her.

And ditch means, disrespecting this guru in the form which cannot b ever expected by the guru by making him
feel small or being DITCHED or let down mainly in a field of expectations , totally coz of a sense of
PRIDE/Ego or OVER confidence in native...
AND.. most important part of this yoga is that native WILL have to pay for his/her misbehavior with guru..sooner or later.

I have seen this to be quite a true that natives with this yoga does have this tendency to think that they have out-smarted their
guru.

I feel that Rahu with Guru does elevate the feeling of arrogance /ego in native and also over shadow native's maturity.

Regards,
Raman Deep Singh
I disagree with interpretation of K.N.Rao. I know personally some members ( 4 actually) of families in my very close relatives who has Guru Chandala yoga , I know the family dynamics well enough and none of the cases it is even remotely true.
At one side , they say Rahu takes the behaviour or nature of planet it is housing with or the lord of house .Then how come now jupiter and rahu combo is derogatory for guru or elders. Why is not Rahu now behaving like Jupiter and Juipter.
This placement of planets could be in any house of horoscope. We are never generic about any combination and dont have blanket judgement about any planetary combination then why about this one.
Mangala and chandra gets considered as Lakshami yoga but not everywhere in every house.

Guru and Rahu can equally give based on its placement atypicality rather than Arrogance. In todays' modern world, not 'All' the teachers of schools would qualify to be called as Gurus as they are all monetary employees and do as much they are supposed to do through their jobs and saffron rob wearing people like Nityanada are good examples of why they should not be believed in.
Not all of us have Guru Rahu combination, but now a days, who believes in these guys.

Second and most important perspective is human birth is just a vehicle of soul. You get to see souls who are born here as much as 300 times already or as less as 5 times already. They differ in their experience. Rahu - Guru combination might make a beginner soul sway away from the righteousness of Jupiter towards expression of Rahu but a mature soul will only disregard all the conventional norms of society which are not healthy. So that can't be taken as arrogance /ego. People believe in dowry and abuse in relationships in our Indian society. Someone like guru- rahu combo will actually not participate and will stand against all nonsense conventions in it, if favoured by placement and maturity of soul. That is a very very favorable act.
For them 'conventionalism' signified by Jupiter is followed only if it is really 'right' and not because it is popular, accepted way of current society otherwise atypical, not-so-popular and yet 'unconventional' norm will be their choice of action as signified by Rahu. Following a guru blindly is not always absence of ego and respect could never be equivalent of self-suppression. If Guru wants to be respected by keeping you under your thumb that is Gurus' arrogance and not shishyas'. If Shishya makes himself come out of it , is not arrogance, because you have to fullfil the objective of your life assigned to you one way or the other way. If it gets done by stepping out of Gurus' shadow, you will have to.
Unfortunately blanket interpretation of combination doesnt help always , does some time.
(If some one is now thinking about my horoscope now, my Jupiter is neither debilitated ,nor in conjuction with rahu/ketu/shani or not even aspected by so called bad guys of astrology.)

Certain · Post by **Certain** » Wed May 23, 2012 1:53 am

Raman Deep Singh wrote:
Lets just stick to this life time only , who knows how many life times we have or we have not gone through

Astrology is not a right subject to follow if all one has to dwell into is just one birth , It is called Nihilism which needs to be followed instead and that is the only thing which can makes sense based on one birth.

Raman Deep Singh wrote: Like all other yogas this yoga also SHUDNT be applied directly and thats true for every yoga or combo or conditions in astrology.no where i hv mentioned that it should not be. I am just deciphering meaning of GC Yoga.

Jupiter as we all know stands for Wisdom.
What you think happens when Rahu gets attached to the wisdom. Kindly share.

Well , in answer to your question that where did you mention....just below this question , there is another blanket statement which is

"Jupiter stands for wisdom".

Natural karakas do not give final diagnosis. Natural Karaka are basic predispositions of their own and not of jataka always and depending on them for such diagnosis could sway you very far away from correct conclusions.
Jupiter along with Rahu or even alone in 8th house having no connection or vitality attached to pertinent graha/house will not be active diagnostic planet for wisdom for that candidate ever.
In the same condition if 5th house had any planet strong or swagrahi or any other strong yoga, other planet/planets will always call the final shot.
So why would someone say that Jupiters stands for wisdom of a Jataka.
Without knowing what should be the preference order or significance of various karakas or significators , the correct conclusion is not possible.
Focal lords of houses and aspects are far far more important than natural karakas always.
I have seen far more intelligent and wise people with Venus /Mercury in exalted condition in 5th house, and no one was musician /artist.Jupiter is not the only intelligent /wise planet of horoscope. You won't send Baba Ramdev on border to fight against soldiers with the Pranayam and Bhastrika in hand.
Definition of wisdom changes with your lifes' plan and circumstances, and like everyother planet , not everything is Jupiters' cup of tea.
.
.
.
.

Raman Deep Singh · Post by **Raman Deep Singh** » Wed May 23, 2012 1:41 pm

Dear certain ji,

Lets clarify few things before moving ahead on the topic.

1.
The wat is astrology all about if not this birth

AND do not mean to say its this birth ONLY...

I may say a native will have a child in future and when prediction fails i can easily say to native i meant in FUTURE . which cud b next birth also

when characteristics mentioned by an astrologer does not meet his future wife or kid , i can easily escape by saying i said FUTURE wife this could mean wife in next birth to

..
True astrology can or  infact must be having some roots to previous/future birth but the result we are talking about is THIS birth.

You get to see souls who are born here as much as 300 times already or as less as 5 times already. They differ in their experience. Rahu - Guru combination might make a beginner soul sway away from the righteousness of Jupiter towards expression of Rahu but a mature soul will only disregard all the conventional norms of society which are not healthy

So how do you plan to give prediction based on it and how are you going to find out soul has taken birth for 5 times or 300 times???
I would really appreciate you sharing this as this would help me and members.

2.
I think u read it wrong Certain ji

So why would someone say that Jupiters stands for wisdom of a Jataka.

Wat i said was :-

Jupiter as we all know stands for Wisdom.

i am sure you may have a different point of view but BPHS says sumthing similar as per GC Sharma's translation.

Natural karakas do not give final diagnosis.

Every planet has got few BASIC properties which may or may not show in a native. I never said its a final diagnosis.. It is like NATURAL property of planet.

3.

I have seen far more intelligent and wise people with Venus /Mercury in exalted condition in 5th house, and no one was musician /artist.Jupiter is not the only intelligent /wise planet of horoscope.

You are reading it wrong Certain ji. Please get it right .. I never said ONLY jupiter can give wisdom.And thats y just like planets houses also got NATURAL property..and there r many other considerations before jumping on the conclusion.

You won't send Baba Ramdev on border to fight against soldiers with the Pranayam and Bhastrika in hand.

Just because you got weapons in ur HAND does not mean you are MEANT FOR WAR

Regards,
Raman Deep Singh

Certain wrote:
Raman Deep Singh wrote:
Lets just stick to this life time only , who knows how many life times we have or we have not gone through
Astrology is not a right subject to follow if all one has to dwell into is just one birth , It is called Nihilism which needs to be followed instead and that is the only thing which can makes sense based on one birth.

Raman Deep Singh wrote: Like all other yogas this yoga also SHUDNT be applied directly and thats true for every yoga or combo or conditions in astrology.no where i hv mentioned that it should not be. I am just deciphering meaning of GC Yoga.

Jupiter as we all know stands for Wisdom.
What you think happens when Rahu gets attached to the wisdom. Kindly share.

Well , in answer to your question that where did you mention....just below this question , there is another blanket statement which is

"Jupiter stands for wisdom".

Natural karakas do not give final diagnosis. Natural Karaka are basic predispositions of their own and not of jataka always and depending on them for such diagnosis could sway you very far away from correct conclusions.
Jupiter along with Rahu or even alone in 8th house having no connection or vitality attached to pertinent graha/house will not be active diagnostic planet for wisdom for that candidate ever.
In the same condition if 5th house had any planet strong or swagrahi or any other strong yoga, other planet/planets will always call the final shot.
So why would someone say that Jupiters stands for wisdom of a Jataka.
Without knowing what should be the preference order or significance of various karakas or significators , the correct conclusion is not possible.
Focal lords of houses and aspects are far far more important than natural karakas always.
I have seen far more intelligent and wise people with Venus /Mercury in exalted condition in 5th house, and no one was musician /artist.Jupiter is not the only intelligent /wise planet of horoscope. You won't send Baba Ramdev on border to fight against soldiers with the Pranayam and Bhastrika in hand.
Definition of wisdom changes with your lifes' plan and circumstances, and like everyother planet , not everything is Jupiters' cup of tea.
.
.
.
.

Raman Deep Singh · Post by **Raman Deep Singh** » Wed May 23, 2012 1:57 pm

True Rohiniranjan ji, There are lot of considerations which need to be judged before jumping on the conclusion that when yoga is gona give result, with how much extremity etc

One of the good pointes was also that 9th or 5th lord also shud b afflicted.

hey i got it online, KN Rao ji 's observation on GC Yoga.

Here is an observation by KN Rao ji:-

The Utility of Guru Chandala Yoga
People with Guru Chandala yoga in their horoscope show the following common psychological traits:

1. They are known for a lack of sense of gratitude which is a noticeable mark in their lives.
2. Timid and lacking in initiative they need the support of someone to climb up some ladders in their life, and after achieving some success, betray their mentors (represented by Jupiter).
3. If the 2nd house of ethical conduct is under malefic influence it can be easily concluded that they can lose their mental balance.
4. There is no one in the world that they admire. Emotionally warped, they rarely suffer a guilty conscience.
5. All these traits manifest most if the mahadasha of Rahu followed by that of Jupiter comes in their life in the prime of their youth.

http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/da ... 102406.htm

Again as i said Certain ji these are pointers about the Yoga or infact ANY yoga and not the FINAL conclusion.

Regards,
Raman Deep Singh

Rohiniranjan wrote:I am a bit surprised that Mr. K.N. Rao made such a broad-sweep statement singling out one combination. But, then we do not know all the details and context of that statement from an interview comment. But neither have I heard that interview, nor is Mr. Rao here to provide all the details and *context*, etc, so I shall not go further on that matter. As they say, "the devil is in the details!"

"Guru-chandal" like other yogas and arishtas is merely a 'spot light' (not necessarily lime-light) is how I see these. One must then examine the role of the planet and nodes in the specific chart and perhaps the chart-specific situation is better understood.

Some consider ketu also to form the GC yoga, others insist that it is only Rahu!

biltu · Post by **biltu** » Wed May 23, 2012 5:12 pm

^^^ I think the common psychological traits people are getting which you have mention above of Guru Chandala Yoga it's from a affliction of Guru Chandala Yoga.

Rohiniranjan · Post by **Rohiniranjan** » Wed May 23, 2012 10:33 pm

biltu wrote:^^^ I think the common psychological traits people are getting which you have mention above of Guru Chandala Yoga it's from a affliction of Guru Chandala Yoga.

Dear friends, GCY is being over-interpreted and with each message bystanders will begin to get the false impression that GCY alone is responsible for renegade disciples (and equivalent). This is where a dose of reality and observations and thinking must be injected in Jyotish which often becomes acrid.

The fact of the matter is that these days, it is fairly common to see this phenomenon of disciples (and children) not respecting their teachers and being defiant and worse. Parental abuse is not all that uncommon, although some societies cleverly manage to hide that or keep it 'contained'. Similarly marital problems! And the impression given is that everything is nice and hunky dory! Astrologers (and priests and psychiatrists) often get to hear the actual status and so do certain other professions.

I would have to be someone who fell of the 'turnip' truck like yesterday to believe that all these instances can be explained by guru-chandal yoga, given the periodicities of jupiter and rahu! Simple math!!

Surely there are many many more factors and combinations and 'states' of the astrological indicator-participants that can explain such a betrayal of Guru and similar individuals! Yes it might be a factor that indicates a tendency of someone being ungrateful towards guru or some other thing but let us not pin the 'pig-tail' on this donkey known as GCY!

One person quoted some interview of a respected astrologer and another member shared her actual experience that this may not be the case always. Such things are not uncommon in jyotish, are they? For instance, I suggested that KBN worked with Chara Karaks and Raman reported back that he has seen the same Nasha with naisargika karakas. That did not start a fight, because I explained and reminded that I did not say that ONLY charakarakas created the nasha! Most people just look at the natural karakas and my point was just to nudge their awareness to also include charakarakas in that consideration. It is not an either/or situation, but an 'and' situation!

Rao ji might have commented (I do not what his conceptual context was at the time of the interview) about GCY being associated with the anti-guru stance etc -- but if we discuss further, we would be guessing and second guessing KNR and that would be a futile activity. And, we must not feel to then 'justify' or explain or rationalize why he said something or what. Why escalate and overinterpret and try to rationalize based on such little understanding of the context of the source information?

Guru is the icon of teacher (among many other things!) and Rahu is the universal BAD GUY as proclaimed by certain Jyotish communities etc. Put the two together and you have the ready recipe for a chela who betrayed the guru.

But is Guru the icon of all that is good, always?
Is Rahu the icon of all that is bad, always?

That is where one must put their observation glasses and thinking caps on!

Symbols and symbolism help but they should not form the FOUNDATION always. Such a cookie might crumble and in actual observation, often does!

Love, Light, Common sense!

RishiRahul · Post by **RishiRahul** » Thu May 24, 2012 7:14 am

Hi Raman,

Controversial & charged topics as usual!

I have seen that Jupiter being afflicted by Ketu may also cause the native to lead a high life (or a life away from spiritualness in the initial stages), as Rahu & Jupiter is samasaptak (opposition there).
The native, later, settles for a more spiritual existence.

Natives with Jupiter Rahu conjunct, as I have seen, may be very normal people., but they are attracted towards materiality much (how much the native would be attracted to these would depend on the 3 & 6 from Al & amatyakarak).

"Warped" is a very STRONG" word, which means ...."To turn or twist (wood, for example) out of shape. 2. To turn from a correct or proper course; deflect. 3. To affect unfavorably, unfairly, or wrongly; bias".
I would prefer to accept the meanings given in point 3, rather than point 1, or even 2.

Additionally, Jupiter Rahu conjunct people (not always), has been found to not remain grateful to their bosses/Gurus/advisors a few times in life; and this may not have come to light many times.
Also they do not view that he/she is guilty of this.

RishiRahul

biltu · Post by **biltu** » Thu May 24, 2012 9:27 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote: Guru is the icon of teacher (among many other things!) and Rahu is the universal BAD GUY as proclaimed by certain Jyotish communities etc. Put the two together and you have the ready recipe for a chela who betrayed the guru.

LOLLL

:smt005 :smt044 :smt044 :smt082 :smt082

Rohiniranjan wrote:But is Guru the icon of all that is good, always?
Is Rahu the icon of all that is bad, always?

according to my horoscope ( if my time of birth is OK ) I have Rahu in my 9th place. But I am believer in GOD and Dharma. If Rahu is always bad then why I am not turn into a not believer in GOD and Dharma. Even I don't have any bad habit like drinking, smoking etc etc. Maybe that Rahu make me still virgin or maybe for bad placement of Venus

:smt009 :smt010 :smt010 :smt086 :smt086

Rohiniranjan · Post by **Rohiniranjan** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:22 am

biltu wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote: Guru is the icon of teacher (among many other things!) and Rahu is the universal BAD GUY as proclaimed by certain Jyotish communities etc. Put the two together and you have the ready recipe for a chela who betrayed the guru.
LOLLL :smt005 :smt044 :smt044 :smt082 :smt082

Rohiniranjan wrote:But is Guru the icon of all that is good, always?
Is Rahu the icon of all that is bad, always?
according to my horoscope ( if my time of birth is OK ) I have Rahu in my 9th place. But I am believer in GOD and Dharma. If Rahu is always bad then why I am not turn into a not believer in GOD and Dharma. Even I don't have any bad habit like drinking, smoking etc etc. Maybe that Rahu make me still virgin or maybe for bad placement of Venus :smt009 :smt010 :smt010 :smt086 :smt086

Biltu,

That posting of mine was a 'tongue-in-cheek' posting against 'Rahu bashing' and 'Guru extolling' that is at times seen on internet!

One cannot be called a virgin if they are too much concerned about marriage and associated companionship significant number of times, and if it becomes a mental preoccupation! Karma is about actions and mental ones count too, though in a different way than other actions with tangible consequences!

RR

biltu · Post by **biltu** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:20 pm

What kind of combination of planet in horoscope make a person a Cheater ? I think it could be related to Rathu and Ketu and also not has the good influence of Jupiter. I know a man who is a cheater and cheating those person by giving a word for their carrier by taking lots of money. I was interested to know his Horoscope for my research but I don't get his Horoscope.

My previous post about Rahu where I meant that Rahu is not giving always a bad thing. Because having a Rahu in 9th house could make a bad person regarding to those matter I wrote in my previous post. But it dose not seen. I think bad placement of Rahu make a person bad, even a good planet place in bad position giving a bad influence. By saying virgin I meant I could be go for women before marriage But I did not do it.

But it dose not meant from my post a "mental preoccupation" :smt016

Rohiniranjan · Post by **Rohiniranjan** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:53 pm

biltu wrote:What kind of combination of planet in horoscope make a person a Cheater ? I think it could be related to Rathu and Ketu and also not has the good influence of Jupiter. I know a man who is a cheater and cheating those person by giving a word for their carrier by taking lots of money. I was interested to know his Horoscope for my research but I don't get his Horoscope.

My previous post about Rahu where I meant that Rahu is not giving always a bad thing. Because having a Rahu in 9th house could make a bad person regarding to those matter I wrote in my previous post. But it dose not seen. I think bad placement of Rahu make a person bad, even a good planet place in bad position giving a bad influence. By saying virgin I meant I could be go for women before marriage But I did not do it.

But it dose not meant from my post a "mental preoccupation" :smt016

NO need to be defensive, my dear friend! You owe no one an explanation! <LOL>

Certain · Post by **Certain** » Fri May 25, 2012 3:18 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote: Guru is the icon of teacher (among many other things!) and Rahu is the universal BAD GUY as proclaimed by certain Jyotish communities etc. Put the two together and you have the ready recipe for a chela who betrayed the guru.

But is Guru the icon of all that is good, always?
Is Rahu the icon of all that is bad, always?

Love, Light, Common sense!

There are reasons why astrology didnt get its worth. One of them is free will to contort and distort the information the way one wants it. Sage Parashar would not descend down to clarify , snatch away degree /certificate or ask for any royalty.
My apology for being headstrong about this Guru chanadal yoga , I find this explanation literally very funny. I wonder rather than being a bad shishya, why it can't be for a person who is destined to have 'a chandal Guru'. Someone who was supposed to have good elders/good guru has now instead chandala guru.
No, I havent started concluding  the same way. I just want to highlight another point of view for such random conclusions.
This yoga is Guru Chandal and not shishya Chandala.
The way Guru was being quoted as 'wisdom' and rahu as maligning wisdom, why not otherway around, Jupiter cleaning it up on Rahu.
This is not the only one.People will see Mars and Venus together , and right off the bat , it becomes 'oh , multiple relationships."
Debilitated moon right off the bat is Neech mata.
This is the sorry state of astrology.
.
.

biltu · Post by **biltu** » Fri May 25, 2012 4:18 pm

^^^ actually those combination are the possibility but not the surety, only a good astrologer know where those combination of planet will give the result. Not possible to predict only from a Natal chart after seeing those planet combination.

Certain wrote: This is not the only one.People will see Mars and Venus together , and right off the bat , it becomes 'oh , multiple relationships."

There should be present of Rahu to give that kind of result.

I see some Horoscope where Rahu present in 7th and lord of the 7th house Mars join with Venus place in 5th or 9th give multiple relationships. No direct aspect of Jupiter in 7th House.

another example where no combination of planet Mars and Venus presence but having that kind of tendency in a person. Rahu in 7th and 7th lord debilitated and no aspect of Jupiter in 7th House.

some horoscope has combination of planet Mars and Venus but no multiple relationships has or had or even those person has no tendency to doing it.

On those Horoscope 7th House and 7th house's planet has good position and has good aspect of others planet.

Rohiniranjan · Post by **Rohiniranjan** » Fri May 25, 2012 8:38 pm

Certain wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote: Guru is the icon of teacher (among many other things!) and Rahu is the universal BAD GUY as proclaimed by certain Jyotish communities etc. Put the two together and you have the ready recipe for a chela who betrayed the guru.

But is Guru the icon of all that is good, always?
Is Rahu the icon of all that is bad, always?

Love, Light, Common sense!
There are reasons why astrology didnt get its worth. One of them is free will to contort and distort the information the way one wants it. Sage Parashar would not descend down to clarify , snatch away degree /certificate or ask for any royalty.
My apology for being headstrong about this Guru chanadal yoga , I find this explanation literally very funny. I wonder rather than being a bad shishya, why it can't be for a person who is destined to have 'a chandal Guru'. Someone who was supposed to have good elders/good guru has now instead chandala guru.
No, I havent started concluding the same way. I just want to highlight another point of view for such random conclusions.
This yoga is Guru Chandal and not shishya Chandala.
The way Guru was being quoted as 'wisdom' and rahu as maligning wisdom, why not otherway around, Jupiter cleaning it up on Rahu.
This is not the only one.People will see Mars and Venus together , and right off the bat , it becomes 'oh , multiple relationships."
Debilitated moon right off the bat is Neech mata.
This is the sorry state of astrology.
.
.

For certain, true, so sadly true...!

We modern jyotishis are so enamoured by the ancient labels that we suffer a mind-block at times! guru chandal, kal sarpa, vipareeta raja, gaja kesari, or even rajyogas, and others. These should not be always too 'literally' interpreted!

But, hey, why should I make waves! I am neither the piller bearer nor the pall-bearer of Jyotish, if it comes to that...!

Regards,

Mystic Board

###Guru chandal yog###

Who is online