Airgon, the chart I said I'd post.

[AyeCantSeeYou]

The more I try to read and understand this, the more confused I make myself.
I'd been wondering about something for some time and made the horary chart this past Monday morning. (Feb. 1, 2010 @ 4:30am) The chart shows the time, date, and location on it.

My question: Do I already know the man I will one day marry?

In trying to learn a little on Horary astrology and how it works, I started reading various websites on how to read a chart. So far, I know:

Querent (Me) - ruled by Saturn - The ascendant is in Capricorn, which is ruled by the planet Saturn. Planets in order for the ascendant: Saturn, Moon, Pluto, Mercury.

House for question: 7th House - is in Cancer and Leo. I get confused here. Cancer is ruled by the Moon, Leo by the Sun. I know Mars (retrograde) is showing in Leo. Where do I go from here? Since no planet is actually placed in Cancer, do I ignore it?

[Airgon]

Hi AyeCantSeeYou,

Nice to see a question with date, time
and place of the question - that way I can
duplicate the chart on my system easily :)

Okay lets go through this question slowly...

Your rulers are:-
Saturn - Capricorn is on the ascendant - or
first house - and Capricorn is ruled by saturn.
Mercury is a co-ruler as it resides in the
first house.
Moon is always a secondary ruler of the querant
in general this means the first house.

Pluto is in Capricorn but not in the first house.
As Pluto resides in the 12th house it is
not accepted as a ruler. Only ruler of the zodiac
sign, planets residing in the querant house - usually
this is the first house - and the secondary ruler
is always the Moon for the querant.

Selecting the seventh house as the quesited
house is probably a good idea. House selection
is exceptinoally difficult but in any case lets
develop the logic and we can always revise the
house later if required.

The zodiac sign on the cusp of the seventh house
is Cancer. This means your quesited ruler is Moon,
Co-ruler ruler is Mars as it resides in the seventh
house and secondary ruler is always the Moon ( again
the Moon but as the primary ruler or just "the ruler"
is the Moon we can ignore this second statement of
the moon being a co-ruler).

Leo is not a factor as far as the quesited rulers go.
Leo is not on the cusp of the seventh house and we always
look at the cusp only.

If you use a house system like placidus which allows
intercepted rulers - an entire zodiac sign totally
enclosed without touching a house cusp then some Horary
practitioners will use that zodiac ruler as a ruler
as well - almost always a secondary ruler meaning not
as powerful or significant as the primary ruler ( the
ruler of the zodiac sign on the cusp ).

Leo is important in terms of understanding the co-ruler
of the quesited ( 7th house ) but only as a kind of
additional description of the Sun dispositing Mars.
the Sun does not have any "ruler" value.

Okay so now - we only have to apply the aspects....

There are no issues as far issues like early degrees
on the ascendant or moon-void-of-course etc.,

Saturn is in the ninth of legal ceremonies ( like Marriage )
so indicating the chart is valid in describing your
question and thoughts.

Saturn has no aspect to the questited ruler the Moon
and the Moon is not in the same house as Saturn. Result
is your primary ruler Saturn does not know the primary
ruler of the quesited ( the question ).

Mars has an applying Sextile to Saturn. Mars represents
a young man by its nature. Slower planets ( Saturn )
affect faster planets ( Mars in this case as there is an
applying sextile ).

Mercury, your co-ruler has an applying trine to the Moon
in the future house ( the second ) of the quesited question
( the seventh ) with the Moon residing in the eigth house.

Your secondary ruler the Moon has no aspect to Mars so can
be "not worried about" for the moment.

Mars is in Leo disposited by the Sun in your second house.

So looks like you do know the person due to the sextile
with Saturn and Mars but he is in your future as the
aspect is applying.

Simmonite page 93/94 says that Mars with Sun ( Mars in
Leo ) makes the name Robert or Peter. Simmonite says this
is not always a "possible" way of determing names but
when his rules work they are usually quite accurate with
this kind of naming. A nice semi-reliable tool from Simmonite :)

What are your ideas so far ? There is a lot more to the
cart of course like Mercury in applying opposition to
the North node - but if we get started thats a good foundation :)

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Nice to see a question with date, time
and place of the question - that way I can
duplicate the chart on my system easily

I made sure I gave the needed info by reading the 'how to post' guidelines. I'd really feel bad if I were to ask something of someone and not give them then details. That's similar to asking for a payraise before being hired for a job.

Your rulers are:-
Saturn - Capricorn is on the ascendant - or
first house - and Capricorn is ruled by saturn.
Mercury is a co-ruler as it resides in the
first house.
Moon is always a secondary ruler of the querant
in general this means the first house.

Pluto is in Capricorn but not in the first house.
As Pluto resides in the 12th house it is
not accepted as a ruler. Only ruler of the zodiac
sign, planets residing in the querant house - usually
this is the first house - and the secondary ruler
is always the Moon for the querant.

Selecting the seventh house as the quesited
house is probably a good idea. House selection
is exceptinoally difficult but in any case lets
develop the logic and we can always revise the
house later if required.

I'm happy to know I got part of that right. I originally didn' t include Pluto when I was researching a little Tuesday night. On Wednesday, I found something that made me want to add it in. I am so glad you cleared this part up for me. Thank you!

The zodiac sign on the cusp of the seventh house
is Cancer. This means your quesited ruler is Moon,
Co-ruler ruler is Mars as it resides in the seventh
house and secondary ruler is always the Moon ( again
the Moon but as the primary ruler or just "the ruler"
is the Moon we can ignore this second statement of
the moon being a co-ruler).

Leo is not a factor as far as the quesited rulers go.
Leo is not on the cusp of the seventh house and we always
look at the cusp only.

I'm glad you cleared this up as well. The more I read on this, the more I confuse myself!

If you use a house system like placidus which allows
intercepted rulers - an entire zodiac sign totally
enclosed without touching a house cusp then some Horary
practitioners will use that zodiac ruler as a ruler
as well - almost always a secondary ruler meaning not
as powerful or significant as the primary ruler ( the
ruler of the zodiac sign on the cusp ).

Is placidus the preferred house system for horary?

Leo is important in terms of understanding the co-ruler
of the quesited ( 7th house ) but only as a kind of
additional description of the Sun dispositing Mars.
the Sun does not have any "ruler" value.

Okay so now - we only have to apply the aspects....

There are no issues as far issues like early degrees
on the ascendant or moon-void-of-course etc.,

Saturn is in the ninth of legal ceremonies ( like Marriage )
so indicating the chart is valid in describing your
question and thoughts.

Saturn has no aspect to the questited ruler the Moon
and the Moon is not in the same house as Saturn. Result
is your primary ruler Saturn does not know the primary
ruler of the quesited ( the question ).

Mars has an applying Sextile to Saturn. Mars represents
a young man by its nature. Slower planets ( Saturn )
affect faster planets ( Mars in this case as there is an
applying sextile ).

Mercury, your co-ruler has an applying trine to the Moon
in the future house ( the second ) of the quesited question
( the seventh ) with the Moon residing in the eigth house.

Your secondary ruler the Moon has no aspect to Mars so can
be "not worried about" for the moment.

Mars is in Leo disposited by the Sun in your second house.

So looks like you do know the person due to the sextile
with Saturn and Mars but he is in your future as the
aspect is applying.

Simmonite page 93/94 says that Mars with Sun ( Mars in
Leo ) makes the name Robert or Peter. Simmonite says this
is not always a "possible" way of determing names but
when his rules work they are usually quite accurate with
this kind of naming. A nice semi-reliable tool from Simmonite

What are your ideas so far ? There is a lot more to the
cart of course like Mercury in applying opposition to
the North node - but if we get started thats a good foundation

You have given me a lot to work with! I wasn't sure how the aspects went into play with each other. Like I said, the more I read, the more in trouble I get myself into with this. I must admit I'm very happy to have the planets tell me I already know who I'll one day marry. There are very few unattached men I know.

As far as the names Robert and Peter, I'm not convinced on those. Robert - I know 2 - one is a nephew that passed away a year ago, and the other one is his father, my ex-brother-in-law. I don't know any Peter's at all. LOL

With the moon being my co-ruler, and also the co-ruler of the quesited, what impact does that haved?

Is there a way to find a general time frame on when I'll know who the person will be? (I know, that's probably far fetched.)

Airgon, I can't thank you enough for your help with this. Not only have you helped on clearing up where I was getting confused on the chart itself, but also with how to continue on it. Again, to put it another way, you are truly an angel.

[AyeCantSeeYou]

I just came across something really interesting to me on Saturn, as my ruler for the question, being in the 9th house - It seems the 9th house also deals with divination, horary astrology (maybe it was meant for me to ask my question!), forecasting, weddings, legalizing ceremonies, and foreign countries and people. (One of the 'unattached' male friends I have is from another country.) This just adds more to the question being valid, regardless of the answer to it, correct?

[Airgon]

You are welcome :)

House selection is an extremely volatile
subject. Many traditional astrologers who
go with Lily use of Regiomontanus - many
modern astrologers who use Neptune, Pluto
and Uranus use placidus today.

I use whatever describes the situation
so if I need the outer planets then its
Placidus and if the chart can be done with
the traditional planets ( no Pluto, Uranus
or Neptune ) then Regiomentus. But I heard
of a astrological convention where people
went to fisticuffs over house selection.
A sensitive area :)

Simmonite does not claim to be accurate with
names - but it can be useful at times especially
in these kind of enquiries to confirm issues
assuming it works. As he is the only one that
I ever saw produce a table of names with
planets for this purpose it is probably
just illustrative of the flexibility possible
with close perception of thousands of charts.

General time frame is a topic in itself but roughly
is controled by applying aspects of the rulers
and usually the moon. Then selecting which is
in Fixed or whatever sign say Mutable will
define the time period of say days or weeks.

However, almost every horary practitioner I read
of always says this is very approximate and
really one should use the natal chart for
timing. Horary just gives a rough idea say
two months but the natal progression of the
appropriate rulers of the houses concerned will
give the times - say Progressed Moon conjuncts
( or some ptolemaic aspect coming up )
Natal Saturn with Saturn ruler of the Natal 7th
House for seventh house questions.

This observation
"I just came across something really interesting to me on Saturn, as my ruler for the question, being in the 9th house - It seems the 9th house also deals with divination, horary astrology (maybe it was meant for me to ask my question!), forecasting, weddings, legalizing ceremonies, and foreign countries and people. (One of the 'unattached' male friends I have is from another country.) This just adds more to the question being valid, regardless of the answer to it, correct?"

is typical for a horary chart and confirms the
macro/micro issues involved. The chart represents
multiple cascading worlds each fully contained
itself like Russian Dolls. If you keep reading
the chart you will find multiple levels of
cascading information :) very addictive ;)

[mtayal]

I have analysed KP Horary chart using the toj and poj given in your post. According to KP it shows that the person will be someone from place of work or known to you or connected with your profession. Broad timeline for relationship is indicated from 18 Feb to 19 Aug 2010. If you wish I can try find exact date from the horary chart

[AyeCantSeeYou]

It's amazing to me how different types of astrology are really related to each other in the end. I have always been intrigued by the stars, the moon, the sun, and the planets. I grew up in what is considered "The Bible Belt" of the USA. I always felt as though I was doing something 'wrong' when I'd look in the newspaper for my horoscope or read books on astrology in the school library. The past few years have been drawing me in more than ever, with 2009 being the ultimate catalyst for me to start digging into the depths of all we can't 'see' with our eyes. That's not to say we don't already know intuitively what is to be. I've been researching and learning, little by little, on Western, Vedic, and Tarot. I'm nowhere near and probably never will be an expert on any of those. What I do know is that the stars, moon, sun, and planets have more to tell us, if we just open our minds to it. I also know, from personal experience, that all 3 of the above, even though they all are as different as can be, will validate one another when a genuine inquiry (from the heart) is made.

Mtayal, thank you for your reply on my post. I do appreciate it.

I have analysed KP Horary chart using the toj and poj given in your post. According to KP it shows that the person will be someone from place of work or known to you or connected with your profession. Broad timeline for relationship is indicated from 18 Feb to 19 Aug 2010. If you wish I can try find exact date from the horary chart

[Airgon]

This is the key to perception in astrology

"...a genuine inquiry (from the heart) is made"

To my mind - there is vast value in the different
approaches... Let the minds comfort and relaxation
guide you forward. If you prefer Vedic then use that,
Western then use that ..

Nowadays there are so many options that provide
intellectual advantage from easily availalble books
and software to discussion forums that provide
pertinent exchange.

I always recall a scholar living near when I was younger
( many decades ago :) ) and once every 6 weeks
a Shakespearean publication would arrive at vast
expense.. letters would take over a month to
deliver - so exchanges often were over 3 months
and only with two particpants - more took vastly longer.

Now we have close to immediate exchange - within
five minutes is easily possible with any number
of participants and observers - thanks to the good
people on Mysticboard.com - top exchange board
for all forms of Mystic expression.

Here is a vote of confidence for MysticBoard and
the Admins that provides the foundation for rational
and meaningful exchange.

[mtayal]

AyeCantSeeYou,

Please think hard about your question and think of lord you believe in . Send me a random number between 1 and 249.  Remember no lucky number or favourite numbers. Just a random number.

[AyeCantSeeYou]

I agree and hope this site continues to do well.

This is the key to perception in astrology

"...a genuine inquiry (from the heart) is made"

To my mind - there is vast value in the different
approaches... Let the minds comfort and relaxation
guide you forward. If you prefer Vedic then use that,
Western then use that ..

Nowadays there are so many options that provide
intellectual advantage from easily availalble books
and software to discussion forums that provide
pertinent exchange.

I always recall a scholar living near when I was younger
( many decades ago ) and once every 6 weeks
a Shakespearean publication would arrive at vast
expense.. letters would take over a month to
deliver - so exchanges often were over 3 months
and only with two particpants - more took vastly longer.

Now we have close to immediate exchange - within
five minutes is easily possible with any number
of participants and observers - thanks to the good
people on Mysticboard.com - top exchange board
for all forms of Mystic expression.

Here is a vote of confidence for MysticBoard and
the Admins that provides the foundation for rational
and meaningful exchange.

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Random Number - how about 23!

AyeCantSeeYou,

Please think hard about your question and think of lord you believe in . Send me a random number between 1 and 249.  Remember no lucky number or favourite numbers. Just a random number.

[AyeCantSeeYou]

There is a lot more to the
cart of course like Mercury in applying opposition to
the North node - but if we get started thats a good foundation

Airgon, what effect would Mercury and the North Node have on this chart?

I ask because I'm having a very difficult time right now believing I'll get married again, much less that I already know who the person may be. This is something that has tormented me for quite some time now.

[Airgon]

Hi,

Mercury and the North node - well I do definately
use the (North and South) Nodes in horary but
not as powerful indicators say as a Ruler of a house.
Still, the Nodes are of value without a doubt in
most charts at least as descriptive mechanisms
supporting a signature of the basic solution.

Observe that Mercury is applying to the North Node
with 2 degrees 45 minutes - Mercury is a co-ruler
of the querant (Mercury in the first house ).

If we accept that the 7th house is the querant
then as the ruler of the 7th is the Moon and the Moon
applies a trine to the North Node at 7 degrees 43 minutes
and also Moon applies a trine to Mercury at 4 degrees
58 minutes... and the Moon is in the house of the potential
person ( 2nd house from the 7th is the 8th - 2nd is the
future )... Moon is in Virgo disposed by Mercury.

Observe that the part of fortune is at 5 degrees 46 minutes
in Gemini ( so Part of Fortune is disposed by Mercury ! )
and has a square of 7 degrees 30 minutes to the Moon...
Part of fortune in 5th house, 5th house ruled by Venus.

All this Mercury and Moon action - now this is further
testimony for a successful conclusion for 1st and
7th house matters... ( as in a committed relationship )
as all of these aspects are applying -

Mercury and the North Node in conjunction indicates
supportive testimony that there is a deep mental contact
with emptiness so much so there is a bonding to a
lack of connection, a searching for inner meaning to describe
inner sensations. There are moments of near rythmical
fascination where one seeks to persue a significance
beyond ones ability through a powerful commitment
to anothers view and understanding .

Timing is better done through the natal chart but would
be supported with the horary - for example looking
for when the Moon is in an appropriate house for
a committed relationship with some form of progression.

How does that sound ?

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Let's just say that was dead on correct and explains an awful lot. The mental anguish lately has been hell to live with. I'll attach my natal chart. I am doubting whether I actually am acquainted with whoever it is I'll ever marry, if I ever will marry again. The only man I know that is single and available I work with. There's more to it, but I won't go into it right now.

All this Mercury and Moon action - now this is further
testimony for a successful conclusion for 1st and
7th house matters... ( as in a committed relationship )
as all of these aspects are applying -

Mercury and the North Node in conjunction indicates
supportive testimony that there is a deep mental contact
with emptiness so much so there is a bonding to a
lack of connection, a searching for inner meaning to describe
inner sensations. There are moments of near rythmical
fascination where one seeks to persue a significance
beyond ones ability through a powerful commitment
to anothers view and understanding .

Timing is better done through the natal chart but would
be supported with the horary - for example looking
for when the Moon is in an appropriate house for
a committed relationship with some form of progression.

How does that sound ?

[AyeCantSeeYou]

I'm assuming all this confirms the answer to the original question. If I'm wrong, please tell me.

Hi,

Mercury and the North node - well I do definately
use the (North and South) Nodes in horary but
not as powerful indicators say as a Ruler of a house.
Still, the Nodes are of value without a doubt in
most charts at least as descriptive mechanisms
supporting a signature of the basic solution.

Observe that Mercury is applying to the North Node
with 2 degrees 45 minutes - Mercury is a co-ruler
of the querant (Mercury in the first house ).

If we accept that the 7th house is the querant
then as the ruler of the 7th is the Moon and the Moon
applies a trine to the North Node at 7 degrees 43 minutes
and also Moon applies a trine to Mercury at 4 degrees
58 minutes... and the Moon is in the house of the potential
person ( 2nd house from the 7th is the 8th - 2nd is the
future )... Moon is in Virgo disposed by Mercury.

Observe that the part of fortune is at 5 degrees 46 minutes
in Gemini ( so Part of Fortune is disposed by Mercury ! )
and has a square of 7 degrees 30 minutes to the Moon...
Part of fortune in 5th house, 5th house ruled by Venus.

All this Mercury and Moon action - now this is further
testimony for a successful conclusion for 1st and
7th house matters... ( as in a committed relationship )
as all of these aspects are applying -

Mercury and the North Node in conjunction indicates
supportive testimony that there is a deep mental contact
with emptiness so much so there is a bonding to a
lack of connection, a searching for inner meaning to describe
inner sensations. There are moments of near rythmical
fascination where one seeks to persue a significance
beyond ones ability through a powerful commitment
to anothers view and understanding .

Timing is better done through the natal chart but would
be supported with the horary - for example looking
for when the Moon is in an appropriate house for
a committed relationship with some form of progression.

How does that sound ?