Perfecting of Aspects

[Cairene]

If the horary was done on Oct 26, 2009 - and we're looking for the perfecting trine's timing here:

Jupiter in 17 Aquarius trining Mercury 27 Libra.

What date would that be please?

Thanks a lot.

[Airgon]

Humm - if you are doing a horary for
Oct 26, 2009 at 12:00 midday in UK, London
there is a seperating trine from Mercury
to Jupiter of 9 degrees and 18 minutes that
was exact on October 20, 2009 at 9:48:39 pm
In UK, London.

Is that what you were after ?

[Rigel]

Timing depends on a lot of factors.  Sometimes it's based on the calendar date of an aspect perfecting and sometimes it's based more off of a symbolic timescale found within the chart itself, then at other times it's simply an weird concoction based off of the signs and houses the planets involved are in.  It gets pretty complicated, and it's not something I've ever come close to mastering.

[fensi88]

Jupiter in 17 Aquarius trining Mercury 27 Libra.

Airgon is right, Me is faster planet then Ju and separate from Ju, so we have no applaying aspect in this chart between that 2 planets.

[Cairene]

I'm confused, because I was told that based on this chart - Merc would trine Jupiter at some point. When I used transits on astro.com, I got Jan 5, 2009. (The question was will I see him again" and this was asked on Oct 26, 2009.

[Airgon]

To look at the question one needs to duplicate
and verify the chart using date - you supplied
Oct 26, 2009 - and time of day and place asked.

[Cairene]

It was asked on Oct. 26, 2009 at 11:28 a.m. in Toronto, Canada. Is this what you were inquiring about, Airgon?

[Airgon]

Am I having a blonde day ?
I get Ascendant 28 degrees 30 minutes
of Sag ? can someone check..

I get the chart Cairene posted if I set
the time zone to ( TZ=4) but I get
the time zone as 5 ( TZ=5 ).

The chart I get is below...

Cairene - Can you tell us if the person
involved is in an occasional relationship
with you ( 5th house ) or in a committed
relationship ( 7th house ) please ?

[Cairene]

Am I having a blonde day ?
I get Ascendant 28 degrees 30 minutes
of Sag ? can someone check..

I get the chart Cairene posted if I set
the time zone to ( TZ=4) but I get
the time zone as 5 ( TZ=5 ).

The chart I get is below...

Cairene - Can you tell us if the person
involved is in an occasional relationship
with you ( 5th house ) or in a committed
relationship ( 7th house ) please ?

Wow, thanks for this, Airgon. This relationship would have been "occasional" and more casual. I'm curious why we're getting two very different charts.

PS: I don't know, you're method may be better, but I was told that if you "name" the person, they are placed in the 7th H, the house of "other". I did name him when I asked the question. This is such a confusing point with so many different astrologers, I hear both sides.

I look forward to see what you come up with. Thanks!!

[fensi88]

"I get the chart Cairene posted if I set
the time zone to ( TZ=4) but I get
the time zone as 5 ( TZ=5 ). "

On 26 October in Toronto was TZ=4

[Airgon]

Hi fensi,

Yes I am sure you are right .. I was doing
some research and messed up my settings
but TZ=4 is definately correct - thankyou.

Cairene there is only one chart.. the question
on the charts is more of a technical software
issue and should not be seen as a diversion
into multiple charts.

In determining the house - the usual initial entry
point in horary analysis we use the question as
stated or intended by the client. This is clarified
until the Horary practitioner can see which
houses are involved.

You said "This relationship would have been
"occasional" and more casual."

I can understand the logic behind "naming" a
person as defining the quesited house as 7 and there
is a tradition of just using the 7th house when in doubt
of which house to resolve to.

Seventh house is always the house of the intimately
known other especially and usually with some
formality ( of ceremony ? ) such as a business
agreement or marriage - typically there is some
formal interaction, that is, documents. Sometimes one
just has deep interaction as with an open enemy
but even with an open enemy the enemy is often fighting
about financial resources which again involves some
kind of a ( disputed with an open enemy ) agreement.

I would judge the house in this case as the fifth house
as fifth house is all about speculation, sex for pleasure,
amusement and is opposite the 11th house of friendship
so there is some interaction at the friendship level.
Seventh house would be more of a live in partner
or husband or a person one works with in a career
situation.

Unfortunately, one has to be very careful with house
analysis of the question and the chart meaning the
planets placement in the houses and signs must describe
or as is said - draw a confirming signature of the concern
of the client.

For example, in purchasing property we use 1st house,
2nd house for client finances and ability to pay,
as usual for the client, 4th house describes the property,
3rd house the neighbours, 5th house the future profit to
be made on the property, 7th house the purchaser,
8th house state of the loan/mortgage, 9th house the
clients lawyer, 10th house current perception of the value
of the property and 5th house as the buyer/sellers
lawyer. And it just goes on and on. How the zodiac
and planets and rulers et al are configured will describe
the current situation and this description should
match the clients question, concern and the perception
of the horary practitioner, When everything matches then
one reads the chart according top horary rules and
the result is described.

That, of course, is the issue - the reading of the chart
is often not easy - the chart is correct but the interpretation
may be in error. With all the self checking possible this
is usually not a factor except with inexprienced horary
practioners or even if that practitioner cannot understand
the issues that the client is presenting - meaning resolving
clients questions into the correct houses with a supporting
signature from the chart.

[Cairene]

Hi fensi,

Yes I am sure you are right .. I was doing
some research and messed up my settings
but TZ=4 is definately correct - thankyou.

Cairene there is only one chart.. the question
on the charts is more of a technical software
issue and should not be seen as a diversion
into multiple charts.

In determining the house - the usual initial entry
point in horary analysis we use the question as
stated or intended by the client. This is clarified
until the Horary practitioner can see which
houses are involved.

You said "This relationship would have been
"occasional" and more casual."

I can understand the logic behind "naming" a
person as defining the quesited house as 7 and there
is a tradition of just using the 7th house when in doubt
of which house to resolve to.

Seventh house is always the house of the intimately
known other especially and usually with some
formality ( of ceremony ? ) such as a business
agreement or marriage - typically there is some
formal interaction, that is, documents. Sometimes one
just has deep interaction as with an open enemy
but even with an open enemy the enemy is often fighting
about financial resources which again involves some
kind of a ( disputed with an open enemy ) agreement.

I would judge the house in this case as the fifth house
as fifth house is all about speculation, sex for pleasure,
amusement and is opposite the 11th house of friendship
so there is some interaction at the friendship level.
Seventh house would be more of a live in partner
or husband or a person one works with in a career
situation.

Unfortunately, one has to be very careful with house
analysis of the question and the chart meaning the
planets placement in the houses and signs must describe
or as is said - draw a confirming signature of the concern
of the client.

For example, in purchasing property we use 1st house,
2nd house for client finances and ability to pay,
as usual for the client, 4th house describes the property,
3rd house the neighbours, 5th house the future profit to
be made on the property, 7th house the purchaser,
8th house state of the loan/mortgage, 9th house the
clients lawyer, 10th house current perception of the value
of the property and 5th house as the buyer/sellers
lawyer. And it just goes on and on. How the zodiac
and planets and rulers et al are configured will describe
the current situation and this description should
match the clients question, concern and the perception
of the horary practitioner, When everything matches then
one reads the chart according top horary rules and
the result is described.

That, of course, is the issue - the reading of the chart
is often not easy - the chart is correct but the interpretation
may be in error. With all the self checking possible this
is usually not a factor except with inexprienced horary
practioners or even if that practitioner cannot understand
the issues that the client is presenting - meaning resolving
clients questions into the correct houses with a supporting
signature from the chart.

Thank you for this thoughtful answer and the info. I appreciate that.

Can we then say that Jupiter (me) and Venus (him) trine and Venus and Moon conjunct, that there will be a meeting in this case? I thought I could see that and was really trying to figure out the "when" but it's been so hard on my brain.  :smt017

[Cairene]

Here's an update on this story. He emailed an invite to his birthday party this weekend. I haven't decided if I'm going yet.