DEMONIAC SPIRITS-ARE THEY REAL?

[lighting strikes twice]

IS DEMONIAC SPIRITS REAL? DO THEY IMITATE LOVED ONE'S THAT HAVE PASSED? ARE WE PROTECTED IF WE OPEN OURSELVES UP TO THE SPIRIT WORLD? DID THEY ORIGINALLY HAVE A BODY OF FLESH?  :smt005

[spiritalk]

IS DEMONIAC SPIRITS REAL?

J:  Depending on the fears placed with individuals, demons are a construct of church authorities.  They were used as a means of control of the populace.  The question, to my mind, would be more valid to say are there uneducated (up to no good, maybe even evil,) spirits?  And then I would have to say an unequivical yes.

DO THEY IMITATE LOVED ONE'S THAT HAVE PASSED?

J:  The uneducated spirits in the lower realms of spirit existence live by an animal nature and in an atmosphere of fog.  When some uneducated mediums attune to this level, they are opening themselves to the pretenders.  They pretend so that they can be acknowledged in their plight.  Sometimes it is not because of evil, but just out of fears of their own.

ARE WE PROTECTED IF WE OPEN OURSELVES UP TO THE SPIRIT WORLD?

J:  One of the things we do is make sure we are protected.  One of the ways to do this is to know who we are working with through energies of love rather than control or other motives.  The unseen can not affect us if we do not allow their agenda to be served.

DID THEY ORIGINALLY HAVE A BODY OF FLESH?  :smt005

J:  The spirit realms, as we know them, are a continuity of earth living.  There are no 'other species' as in some one who has not lived an earth life available in our connection to spirit realms.  Having walked this way before gives them some insight into our own challenges and some answers they have gleaned through experience.  That is why the guide we allow is so important.



PS Interesting questions.[/i]

[looking_glass]

This is an interesting topic. There are some things in Spirtalks response I disagreed with, but there were also some I wanted to add to. I suppose what one takes away from this depends on each person's experience.


IS DEMONIAC SPIRITS REAL?

To me demons are fallen angels, or just the opposite side of the spectrum with regards to angels. I do not believe they are just evil spirits as Spiritalk alluded, though that's entirely possible. If that is true, then maybe this is more a case of terminologies.



DO THEY IMITATE LOVED ONE'S THAT HAVE PASSED?

I have not experienced that. What I have experienced was a demon or evil spirit imitating quite a few other things including a shepard holding a staff and the Virgin Mary. I grew up Catholic, and I believe both images were meant to gain my trust. Over a period of about a week I began to see shadows, which then turned into these various images, first beginning with the shepard. On the final night, the shadow morphed into a shepard, then the Virgin Mary, but with wicked teeth/fangs and eyes, and then it showed it's true face. In a matter of seconds it changed faces over and over and went through about ten different faces. They were demonic in nature, meaning it shared no resemblance to human or animal figures. For each face there were no eyes/pupils, just blank holes. Seeing this literally made me feel sick and I threw up. I have had other experiences with evil spirits and some might say demons, but this was quite different.



ARE WE PROTECTED IF WE OPEN OURSELVES UP TO THE SPIRIT WORLD?

One thing I want to make clear was that for my experiences in which I have seen evil things, I was not looking for such things, nor looking into things of that nature. This was however a time in my life in which I was beginning to open up, and having to make some choices. Aside from seeing not so good things, I also saw lights appear near musical instruments in my room (peace) and weapons (war), which to me meant that I was to choose between two sides. I was also warned before hand to be mindful of the shadows. I don't see the experience as a negative one, rather I see it as a way to open my eyes to what is truly out there. To know evil, but to also know love is a great gift. When we open ourselves up to things we may not be familiar with, we are trusting, without always knowing where we are putting that trust. So to me the answer to the question is yes and no. It depends where we are putting that trust. i put my trust in God, or try to.



DID THEY ORIGINALLY HAVE A BODY OF FLESH?  

If you define a demon as also an evil spirit, then yes, it may have once lived in the flesh. if you define a demon as a fallen angel, then to me the answer is no. I really do not think it matters whether a spirit or demon or angel has once lived in the flesh or not. This is one of those areas where I disagree with Spiritalk. I believe there are spirits or entities that exist and can be spoken with that have never lived in the flesh. An additional example are jin.

[looking_glass]

Just wanted to add that while answering the second question, the lights in my room flickered for a moment.

[lighting strikes twice]

IS DEMONIAC SPIRITS REAL?

J:  Depending on the fears placed with individuals, demons are a construct of church authorities.  They were used as a means of control of the populace.  The question, to my mind, would be more valid to say are there uneducated (up to no good, maybe even evil,) spirits?  And then I would have to say an unequivical yes.

DO THEY IMITATE LOVED ONE'S THAT HAVE PASSED?

J:  The uneducated spirits in the lower realms of spirit existence live by an animal nature and in an atmosphere of fog.  When some uneducated mediums attune to this level, they are opening themselves to the pretenders.  They pretend so that they can be acknowledged in their plight.  Sometimes it is not because of evil, but just out of fears of their own.

ARE WE PROTECTED IF WE OPEN OURSELVES UP TO THE SPIRIT WORLD?

J:  One of the things we do is make sure we are protected.  One of the ways to do this is to know who we are working with through energies of love rather than control or other motives.  The unseen can not affect us if we do not allow their agenda to be served.

DID THEY ORIGINALLY HAVE A BODY OF FLESH?  :smt005

J:  The spirit realms, as we know them, are a continuity of earth living.  There are no 'other species' as in some one who has not lived an earth life available in our connection to spirit realms.  Having walked this way before gives them some insight into our own challenges and some answers they have gleaned through experience.  That is why the guide we allow is so important.



PS Interesting questions.[/i]

I'm sure of this-the con man can only con you if you are unaware that the con is a con man. The question then is, how, do you know you are not led to believe a lie of deception? What guarantee will you give that you are right and all will be well with us? Also, if the bible is correct and you are wrong, it also says that you will be held accountable for all those you have caused to stumble.

[Doe]

I have had experience--mostly toward the beginning of my (for lack of a better, less sappy-sounding term at the moment!) "awakening"--with spirits who had what seemed to be bad intentions.  Some tried to make me believe things about myself that I knew weren't true (I've mentioned the whole "Jesus/Mary Magdalene" thing here a few times  :smt009), or tried to frighten me, or pretended to be my "guide", David (usually they would try to tell me that he was deserting me, etc., but they had a lot of trouble keeping their stories straight).  Once or twice they tried to tell me that they would kill me, or that I should kill myself (don't worry--never even considered it!).  Some can be VERY clever, but over time I've learned (with the help of my guide) to simply turn it off, and to realize that their only real "weapon" against me is fear.  David and I work much better together now; it's not always infallible, but I can usually "hear" his calm, reasurring, "sane" voice coming through the others, giving me just enough rope so that I can learn, but never letting me forget that he's around to keep me safe.

I don't know that any of the spirits are "evil"--I don't like to believe in the idea of evil for evil's sake, but there seem to be those among the living (that Austrian man who imprisoned his daughter in his cellar and fathered her 7 children over the years, for example) who may well be, for whatever reason, so I guess that spirits would by necessity have the possibility of being evil as well.  Most times, though, I think that (as Spiritalk alluded to) they are more frightened, confused, and/or angry, and don't know any other way to deal with that (and that's why it's important to try to give them love and compassion).

Looking Glass, this is beautifully said, and to a large degree it's the way I feel too:

I was also warned before hand to be mindful of the shadows. I don't see the experience as a negative one, rather I see it as a way to open my eyes to what is truly out there. To know evil, but to also know love is a great gift. When we open ourselves up to things we may not be familiar with, we are trusting, without always knowing where we are putting that trust. So to me the answer to the question is yes and no. It depends where we are putting that trust. i put my trust in God, or try to.

I have no choice but to decide who and what to trust, to the best of my abilities, and to go with that.  I've learned the hard way that I need to be careful, but on the other hand living in constant suspicion will undermine any of the things I want to do, and the way I want to live among the living and among spirits.

Between "God" (whoever or whatever the Creator(s) may be), my guide, my own faith in the power of love, and what I've been able to learn and experience so far, I always feel safe--and I don't believe that it's a false security.

Really interesting thread so far!

Doe

[looking_glass]

Doe,

I haven't read everything about this David, but just because one does not knowingly do harm to us, or purposefully do harm to us, does not also mean that our best interest is at hand. Sometimes spirits like having an entourage....lol

[Doe]

Well, if "this David" is doing me any harm, I have yet to see what it is--and I may be trusting, but I'm no fool, and I knew who David was when he was alive and how he treated me then.  His influence ("entourage" or not) has made me be able to love others more fully, be more compassionate and forgiving, live a (somewhat--working on that!) more healthy lifestyle, look more deeply at my own shortcomings and work toward bettering myself, be more creative than I've been in a long time, and feel a connectedness with the universe and the people around me than I ever had...those are just for starters.

So, if he's got a posse, or even some weird ulterior motives that I haven't yet discerned, my life has nevertheless definitely improved over the past year in ways it wouldn't have otherwise, as far as I can tell.  I'm intelligent--and old--enough at this point to be able to discern between positive and negative influence.

So I'm happy, and I have faith.

Doe

[looking_glass]

No worries Doe.

[Doe]

No problem, Looking Glass!  Just before you wrote again, I was thinking (remarking to D., actually) that it's good for me to get challenged on these things so that I can think them through yet again (and believe me--I think them through a lot!) and make sure that I still feel I'm on the right path.  The same goes for the "evil" spirits (and yes, I do believe that there are some who are here specifically because David is--not that he WANTS it that way, because he's the one who always has to "run interference" between them and me), or even people who have "wronged" me or hurt me in some way.  It's all there to make me stronger, and (I hope) a better person, as long as I can keep looking at things in the right way.

I'm definitely a work-in-progress (with a great deal of work to go), but there is definitely progress, and David's presence (and the presence of anyone else who crosses my path) definitely has contributed to that in a big way.

Longwinded little thing, aren't I?!  :smt003

Thanks, LG!

Doe

[spiritalk]

This is an interesting topic. There are some things in Spirtalks response I disagreed with, but there were also some I wanted to add to. I suppose what one takes away from this depends on each person's experience.


IS DEMONIAC SPIRITS REAL?

To me demons are fallen angels, or just the opposite side of the spectrum with regards to angels. I do not believe they are just evil spirits as Spiritalk alluded, though that's entirely possible. If that is true, then maybe this is more a case of terminologies.

J:  Of course, all knowledge comes from personal experiences.  Mine have led me to know the spirit world is composed of those who have once lived this life.  Demonic is in the eyes of the beholder.  As a catholic you have the source of all angel mythology, for that is truly what it is, despite the current spate of information that is available (and the most popular from those once in the Catholic church).  The fact is...angels are not a real entity at all - merely the invention and production of the church to control minds, just like demons in that category as well.  Check it out - where else has angels come from in history?




DO THEY IMITATE LOVED ONE'S THAT HAVE PASSED?

I have not experienced that. What I have experienced was a demon or evil spirit imitating quite a few other things including a shepard holding a staff and the Virgin Mary. I grew up Catholic, and I believe both images were meant to gain my trust. Over a period of about a week I began to see shadows, which then turned into these various images, first beginning with the shepard. On the final night, the shadow morphed into a shepard, then the Virgin Mary, but with wicked teeth/fangs and eyes, and then it showed it's true face. In a matter of seconds it changed faces over and over and went through about ten different faces. They were demonic in nature, meaning it shared no resemblance to human or animal figures. For each face there were no eyes/pupils, just blank holes. Seeing this literally made me feel sick and I threw up. I have had other experiences with evil spirits and some might say demons, but this was quite different.

J:  I had spirit entities come that were imitating a kind, loving, caring spirit until given a chance, they showed their true colors.  This was someone who resided in spirit and that spirit realm of passed human beings who once walked this life.  That is how they deceive - by our own knowledge and experience.  They make things so comfortable until ready to pounce into their true colors.



ARE WE PROTECTED IF WE OPEN OURSELVES UP TO THE SPIRIT WORLD?

One thing I want to make clear was that for my experiences in which I have seen evil things, I was not looking for such things, nor looking into things of that nature. This was however a time in my life in which I was beginning to open up, and having to make some choices. Aside from seeing not so good things, I also saw lights appear near musical instruments in my room (peace) and weapons (war), which to me meant that I was to choose between two sides. I was also warned before hand to be mindful of the shadows. I don't see the experience as a negative one, rather I see it as a way to open my eyes to what is truly out there. To know evil, but to also know love is a great gift. When we open ourselves up to things we may not be familiar with, we are trusting, without always knowing where we are putting that trust. So to me the answer to the question is yes and no. It depends where we are putting that trust. i put my trust in God, or try to.

J:  Trust only in God and then accept his spirit helpers (guides, angels - if that is your belief system, loved ones) that know how to work within the spirit realms for the good of all.  I sincerely do NOT believe we have to experience all things to understand the good, the bad, the ugly - there are just too many lessons to learn to remain in this 'stuck' realm.




DID THEY ORIGINALLY HAVE A BODY OF FLESH?  

If you define a demon as also an evil spirit, then yes, it may have once lived in the flesh. if you define a demon as a fallen angel, then to me the answer is no. I really do not think it matters whether a spirit or demon or angel has once lived in the flesh or not. This is one of those areas where I disagree with Spiritalk. I believe there are spirits or entities that exist and can be spoken with that have never lived in the flesh. An additional example are jin.

J:  And therein lies the mythology.  Channeled literature has shown the channel to be those that have lived before so that they can understand our struggles and challenges as they have passed this way before.  Each to their own.  But trusting indiscriminately is not the best approach.

[spiritalk]

The bible is not correct in my experience.  But then for those that follow it word for word will have to find their own answers.

My experience is of the light.  Dark, evil, demonic, low level spirit can Not live in that light.  I know I don't deceive because I tell no one what to do - I merely express choices that are in their path.  They have free will to follow or not.  And I have received confirmation from my own loved ones and spirit guides about the spirit realms.  In this is the progressive message I espouse.

It does say - Test the Spirits.  And I do this all the time.  The test is in the light.  When spirit 'not of the light' try to communicate they are seen by their own spirituality and this protects the medium from taking all as the word of spirit.

It also says - God is spirit.  Fears and words of warning are not very productive to a Loving God.  Taking the bible word for word does this to those who wish that route.

[spiritalk]

I have had experience--mostly toward the beginning of my (for lack of a better, less sappy-sounding term at the moment!) "awakening"--with spirits who had what seemed to be bad intentions.  Some tried to make me believe things about myself that I knew weren't true (I've mentioned the whole "Jesus/Mary Magdalene" thing here a few times  :smt009), or tried to frighten me, or pretended to be my "guide", David (usually they would try to tell me that he was deserting me, etc., but they had a lot of trouble keeping their stories straight).  Once or twice they tried to tell me that they would kill me, or that I should kill myself (don't worry--never even considered it!).  Some can be VERY clever, but over time I've learned (with the help of my guide) to simply turn it off, and to realize that their only real "weapon" against me is fear.  David and I work much better together now; it's not always infallible, but I can usually "hear" his calm, reasurring, "sane" voice coming through the others, giving me just enough rope so that I can learn, but never letting me forget that he's around to keep me safe.

I don't know that any of the spirits are "evil"--I don't like to believe in the idea of evil for evil's sake, but there seem to be those among the living (that Austrian man who imprisoned his daughter in his cellar and fathered her 7 children over the years, for example) who may well be, for whatever reason, so I guess that spirits would by necessity have the possibility of being evil as well.  Most times, though, I think that (as Spiritalk alluded to) they are more frightened, confused, and/or angry, and don't know any other way to deal with that (and that's why it's important to try to give them love and compassion).

J:  We are spirit now even as we are in the physical body.  It is this spirit that is learning all those life lessons to take it forward and progress.  So those in the body who can do such evil (as you alluded to) will not be any different should they pass away at this moment, than their experience has taught them to be - evil they are. (From Forest Gump:  Evil is as evil does (paraphrased of course))  They will arrive in spirit realms fit for this kind of darkness - not disturbing the lightened ones.  They do not remain forever in darkness.  But it is up to their own free will choice to change if they want to - not being forced or impressed from others, except the angels who go to the lower realms for the purpose of aiding these lost souls.

Looking Glass, this is beautifully said, and to a large degree it's the way I feel too:

I was also warned before hand to be mindful of the shadows. I don't see the experience as a negative one, rather I see it as a way to open my eyes to what is truly out there. To know evil, but to also know love is a great gift. When we open ourselves up to things we may not be familiar with, we are trusting, without always knowing where we are putting that trust. So to me the answer to the question is yes and no. It depends where we are putting that trust. i put my trust in God, or try to.

I have no choice but to decide who and what to trust, to the best of my abilities, and to go with that.  I've learned the hard way that I need to be careful, but on the other hand living in constant suspicion will undermine any of the things I want to do, and the way I want to live among the living and among spirits.

Between "God" (whoever or whatever the Creator(s) may be), my guide, my own faith in the power of love, and what I've been able to learn and experience so far, I always feel safe--and I don't believe that it's a false security.

Really interesting thread so far!

Doe

[spiritalk]

Doe,

I haven't read everything about this David, but just because one does not knowingly do harm to us, or purposefully do harm to us, does not also mean that our best interest is at hand. Sometimes spirits like having an entourage....lol

Very interesting observation and well worth discussing.  The spirit guides that come to us to work with us in all our spiritual endeavours have our best interests at heart.  They can not live our lives.  They can not make our decisions for us.  And they are not infallible.  They, too, are learning and growing.

What they CAN do is guide us.  When the path seem rough they can see a little farther down the road than we can from our perspective.  With this in mind, they can tell us the obstacles and help us make the decisions that will give us the best path for the best lesson.  (Note:  I don't believe that is always the easiest way - my life is testimony to that thought!)

And yes, there are pretenders for the job.  That is where the Individual has to come to the conclusions of trust for themselves.  It is also why I have come down strongly on spirit guides - not just opinion, but experience and knowledge that has been channeled and passed to those opening to the best.

[looking_glass]

Here in lay a problem for me. Channeled literature is no different than any other book in that you are laying your trust in others who may not have your best interest, or the best interest of others at heart. The questions posed at the beginning of the thread were great because it brings up a good point, in that how does one know that a spirit is indeed a loved one, especially if we can agree that there are those spirits or demons who do deceive. And regardless if it is a loved one or not, who is to say they have seen all there is to see, in this world or the next. Perhaps t hey know no more than they knew here in this life. Perhaps they do know more, but no more than what God wants them to know; a veil removed, but still more veils to uncover.

I also want to point out, although I was raised Catholic, it does not mean I am Catholic now. It has however given me a perspective that may differ or be shared by others.

One thing I do know is, just because I say something and believe something does not necessarily make it so, and so I do understand that trust must be given somewhere. The real question is where will we lay that trust. It must be reaffirmed each moment of our lives.