On Society

[Jayashree Ravi]

1. Why do the needs and desires of society keep changing? Is it because of scientific inventions? Is it because another society came in possession of booty either naturally or through invention or discovery?

2. Why does the society go to long extent to make the non-society members fall in line with their (society's) ideas and views even when non-adherence does not materially alter the society's position?

[eye_of_tiger]

Dear Sister in Spirit,

These are both excellent and highly thought provoking and controversial questions.

I will attempt to answer your second question first.

Why does the society go to long extent to make the non-society members fall in line with their (society's) ideas and views even when non-adherence does not materially alter the society's position?

Because it is in the best interests of the government and other forms of authority for as many people as possible to conform or fall into line with the standards or values which they have imposed upon them. By making people more the same it is easier for people in positions of power to more effectively control and manipulate the more disadvantaged citizens.

By making the general population appear to fit into one box or category or pigeonhole as being more similar to each other than different, it is easier to define who they are and make excuses for not doing anything to help them based purely upon their "inferiority" when compared to the rich and powerful among us.

Why do the needs and desires of society keep changing?

Mainly because the needs and desires of the individuals who collectively make up that society are constantly changing. Change is one of the most dependable constants in our lives which we can always depend upon happening. Indeed the ability of an organism to successfully adapt to the changes in its surroundings or environment is one of the criteria used to determine if it is alive. Without some degree of change, life would not be possible.

People are permanently and continuously changed by their accumulated life experiences, or to be more exact they are changed by their responses to their accumulated life experiences or what happens to them. The true measure of a person's quality and depth of character is not so much what happens to them but what they do in response to whatever happens to them.

Our desires often (what we think that we want) change significantly over time, but what we really need from one stage of our life to the next remains remarkably constant (although there is still some change). Much of the conflict and war and human suffering is the result of greed and ignorance, but pure evil does play a role.

The problem is that most of us think that we have a very good idea of what we want, but have absolutely no idea about what we need in order to be able to reach our full potential as both spiritual and human beings. Often we recognise too late that what we thought that we wanted is nowhere near as good as it first appeared to be. Sometimes the worst thing that can happen to you is to get what you thought that you wanted.

Be careful what you wish for as it just might come true.

This same principle operates at the level of a government, just as much as it operates in the life of an individual. Governments and big business often decide what we need or want, then impose policies or financial restrictions upon us which are designed to make these happen.

Whether or not we want something in our society, we are told in no uncertain terms that we do want them. If we disagree we are accused of being bad people for not falling in line with their rules, and are not good citizens of our country. If we do not consume more and more resources every year we are keeping people unemployed and are burdens to our society. Emotional blackmail and an appeal to our patriotism and sense of national pride are excellent weapons to be used against us to force us to conform or fit in.

Is it because of scientific inventions?

The scientific inventions are a response to our changing needs and desires, rather than being their cause.

Is it because another society came in possession of booty either naturally or through invention or discovery?

The "other man's grass is always greener" syndrome is very active and popular among both human beings as well as their governments, which is made up entirely of more highly imperfect and flawed human beings.

If you are jealous of what another person or government has and they will not voluntarily share it with you, then the use of physical force to get more than your fair share of what they have but you do not, is always on the table.

In a country where the difference between the people who have nothing and the people who have almost everything they could want grows to a critical level, mass protest often leads to governments being thrown out. If they will not go peacefully and willingly, then increasing violence and ultimately war will be the result.

But as was also the case with scientific inventions, this jealousy and greed for more power and money is NOT THE CAUSE of our changing needs or desires as a society. They are instead a very negative and highly destructive to everyone RESPONSE to what individuals or their governments think that they want or need, which others appear to have, and will not willingly share with them.

Salutations!

EoT  :smt115

[Jayashree Ravi]

EOT ji,

Thank you for the excellent reply!

I was kinda thinking scientific inventions and material advancement of another society pioneer changes within a society, but after reading your reply, I understand the process of 'change' or 'evolution' of a society from within due to changing needs of its individuals rather than these external factors.

(These are not my questions, but I came across this in another list and took permission from the author to publish it in this site...).

[Rohiniranjan]

1. Why do the needs and desires of society keep changing? Is it because of scientific inventions? Is it because another society came in possession of booty either naturally or through invention or discovery?

2. Why does the society go to long extent to make the non-society members fall in line with their (society's) ideas and views even when non-adherence does not materially alter the society's position?

Hi Jayashree,

1. Briefly put, the process has been dubbed as "PROGRESS"! Opinions vary as to whether it is always in the right direction or simply 'desirable direction'. The desirable generally refers to who is desiring and to what end!! Scientific inventions [and other discoveries], in my opinion, are the outcomes and not the cause of the problem! While scientists were instrumental in figuring out the discovery of the principles that lead to design of the nuclear bomb, it was not their finger on the trigger button that launched those. You might recall the story of the monkey who was handed a sword to guard over the King while he slept – – and the outcome of that! Though somewhat crude and terse, "the naked ape" and 'the human Z00' by Desmond Morris do capture the essence of human progress and the recalcitrant nature of primal drives that have remained faithful through the hundreds of thousands of years of development of human sophistication, a.k.a. PROGRESS. Add to that the innate cunningness (politics) which the human race uniquely possesses and exercises From this and a few other things arises exploitation which human beings exercise quite frequently (including *well intentioned* parents)!

2. some of this covered above. I prefer the term cohorts because as we know in many societies there are sub- societies (cohorts) which have been and still are exploited by members within a society. The disease is pandemic! I recently heard about yet another misappropriation and maldistribution of a huge amount of aid that should have gone to help the victims in Haiti. Greed, callousness, poor planning, all these and more were probably responsible. And in this instance it was not some streetcorner charitable association that was involved either. Little wonder that many will grow increasingly cynical as the vicious circle continues.

One human being is a beast complicated enough but when a group of those come together the complexity can increase astronomically. Impossible to capture, let alone resolve through a forum thread. :-[

Since you are an Astrophile, you must be aware of the complex and sometimes subtle interactions between the personal indicators in a nativity's chart, that make them tick. In a community (any kind) the dynamics can get really complex as I'm sure you well understand.

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[Rohiniranjan]

duplicate. Moderator please delete this one!

[Jayashree Ravi]

Add to that the innate cunningness (politics) which the human race uniquely possesses and exercises From this and a few other things arises exploitation which human beings exercise quite frequently (including *well intentioned* parents)!

RR ji,

I quoted the above reply of yours because I thought that the reason society changes and 'evolves' is because of the reason that not all its members are given the choice of leading a 'balanced' life or an 'equal' one. I think that this essentially vibes well with your stated para above. Since some of the members (example: women, the disabled) are imbalanced and uhappy about their condition, because for various reasons a society has not given them equal freedom and liberty for living to start with. As the society matures in an effort to provide for more comfortable living to its members, revolutionaries arise to address the problem with the under-privileged and they pioneer the changes... This could not be all the reason for a change, but atleast one of it.

I liked the rest of your reply. Thank you.

[Rohiniranjan]

Add to that the innate cunningness (politics) which the human race uniquely possesses and exercises From this and a few other things arises exploitation which human beings exercise quite frequently (including *well intentioned* parents)!

RR ji,

I quoted the above reply of yours because I thought that the reason society changes and 'evolves' is because of the reason that not all its members are given the choice of leading a 'balanced' life or an 'equal' one. I think that this essentially vibes well with your stated para above. Since some of the members (example: women, the disabled) are imbalanced and uhappy about their condition, because for various reasons a society has not given them equal freedom and liberty for living to start with. As the society matures in an effort to provide for more comfortable living to its members, revolutionaries arise to address the problem with the under-privileged and they pioneer the changes... This could not be all the reason for a change, but atleast one of it.

I liked the rest of your reply. Thank you.

Socio-anthropologists-ethnologists tell us that in much older times the Yin principle reigned supreme and societies used to be matriarchal. In fact in most of kingdom animalia the matriarch still is a force to be reckoned with and the female often kills the male!

If all this is indeed as portrayed, somewhere along the special (of the species) journey, the tides got turned at least in the humans. From what I see, the tides are beginning to turn again, although slowly.

Is it just happenstance? Is it natural cycling or is it what -- I do not know!

A key factor seems to be 'who' governs the information (knowledge) and how one chooses to disseminate and disburse it! We see that in nearly all walks and pursuits of life, and mysticism and its many cul-des-sacs are equally guilty as well...?

At least in the past forty years or so, there has been a very slow change in that tradition as well.

Let us all pray, hope and contribute as much as we can and embrace such a healthy change, despite the complexes and complexities of human existence?