u know,
we started this board just for fun. but now i have actually sort of got addicted to it:)
makes me feel at peace sometimes. i know that if i am down, i will find someone who will make me fel better or make me see things the way they r.
can someone help me out?
Moderators: eye_of_tiger, shalimar123, RishiRahul
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dolphin_1972
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:19 pm
Hiya to everyone
I totally understand how u all feel becoz i feel like im being treated the same way by people and my lack of trust now is so frustrating 2 me let alone those who try and get close. Maybe it's a Leo thing (im probably very wrong tho), my birthday is 4th Aug '72. I know exactly when and y my lack of trust hit it's peak, and i've been trying 2 turn it around and trust again for the longest time but each time i do, some1 comes along and hurts me again and it's back up with the walls..
Who knows, maybe things will change, for all of us
What doesn't kill only serves to make us stronger 
Here's to a fantastic group of people
Have a gr8 day everyone
Cheers
Tan
This IS a fantastic group! I have to say the other forums I have been on... people were NOT nearly as friendly as they are here! I am glad this place was created! Nice work Abhishek and Swetha! 
lets keep it up and I know I had some readings to do for others, which I haven't had a chance yet (sorry) 
but I'll get to it!
Miriam
lets keep it up and I know I had some readings to do for others, which I haven't had a chance yet (sorry) but I'll get to it! Miriam
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morton tolson
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:00 pm
Miriam's Gestalt or Pattern
Miriam's 'Gestalt' Configuration
The word 'gestalt' suggests a 'whole' that is greater than the sum of its parts. And clearly, astrology looks at a person not just as an assemblage of cells, organs, emotions and thoughts, but as a totality that is greater than anything of these things we can call 'mine'.
Many people seem to place an enormous importance on their bodies, but scientists tell us that our DNA differs from that of the primates by a very small percentage - so our biological parts must be almost identical. The point is: somehow, the arrangement or pattern of our parts has allowed us humans to take a gigantic evolutionary leap beyond the primates.
So we will start by examining the gestalt or pattern of Miriam's chart. In this first glimpse, the identity of the individual planets is not important; we examine Miriam's pattern to see how she fits into the still larger pattern of the universe - and fit she must. After all, we and our universe are constructed of the 'same stuff'.
http://groups.msn.com/astrolcabala/miri ... PhotoID=21
First we will look for some emphasis of a hemisphere or a quadrant. In Miriam's chart, for example, we find seven of her ten planets in the upper hemisphere - in the light of day. Only three are below - in the arena of the subconscious mind. We might assume then that she is very self-aware. We might question how good a connection she has to her own subconscious feelings and motivations - but we will leave that for the moment.
We find eight of Miriam's planets are in the Western hemisphere, so she may be a counter-puncher, waiting for life to bring her a challenge to wich she can respond. We also note that her first house (the Self) is empty - (it is not empowered by any planets). I am not suggesting that a Leo Sun, with Sagittairus Rising, could not have a personality, but only that her personality is not be a major tool in Miriam's arsenal.
Finally, the entire Spring Quadrant is empty, and this (near) open trine tempts us to identify her gestalt or pattern as an 'open angle pattern. These people are known to be very dynamic and active, but tempting as this definition is, once we examine her aspects it becomes clear that Miriam's gestalt is really a See-saw; she has three planets in the below, balancing the seven in the above!
Miriam's See-saw
One quick and dirty way to begin an analysis of any pattern is to look at the charts of some well known persons. I may have mentioned before that both president Richard Nixon and the philosopher Krishnamurti had See-saw patterns. President Nixon had three planets above, in the ninth, tenth and eleventh houses. Nixon, then, saw the area around the M.C. as a political arena. He was a great manipulator, able to balance one faction against another. But despite the fact that Saturn was his most elevated planet - his own ego (seemingly) caused him (finally) to self-destruct.,
http://groups.msn.com/astrolcabala/miri ... PhotoID=23
Krishnamurti also had three planets in the above and seven below, but his philosophy balanced the unity of the universe (the above) against the pain and self-doubts, the joys or sorrows, found in our subconscious nature in the below. His tool for this balancing act was meditation. And (we ask), what is it that gets balanced?
Alchemy, Astrology, Buddhism and Yoga zall teach us that we must learn to balance the pairs of opposites - right and left, hot and cold, love and hate, fear and confidence, male and female and etc,. And these must also be balanced with the Above or with the planetary powers, in order to form a harmonious whole. And what is 'whole' is our personality -- including our 'soul' (whatever that means).
And a good astrologer, in my opinion, needs to see INTO the meaning of our common symbols. For example, the symbol for Earth is a square or a cross, representing a well-balanced manifested results. And we should recognize that the symbol of the cross is found in the center of the outer circle of our charts. So, while our task seems clear enough to our conscious mind, it is an unfortunate truth that -- by definition, our subconscious nature is NOT accessible to our self-conscious awareness. Therefore we do not SEE the imbalances in our own nature. (These may be readily apparent to our friends and relatives, but that is another story).
Adding the Planets
http://groups.msn.com/astrolcabala/miri ... PhotoID=22
When we look at the planets involved in each sign and location, we find clues to the exact meaning of Miriam's See-saw. For example, Libra is the traditional sign of harmony and balance, and we find Uranus and Pluto in Libra. Further, Uranus - the planet which symbolizes our urge to move beyond the limits of the social planets and beyond our old mores, is also Miriam's most elevated planet, and is in opposition to Moon. Finally, Uranus establishes one end of Miriam's See-saw and her Moon conjunct Jupiter establishes the other end. So Saturn, at the mid-point , is acting as the release of this tension.
This establishes Miriam's Moon, the principle of connectedness, as playing a most important role in Miriam's gestalt. The Moon remains, of course, secondary to the Sun -- but it is the Moon which carries out the Sun's purpose.
Our Next Post
We now have the background to begin a more detailed analysis of Miriam's chart -- based on the pattern of the See-saw and the lesser pattern of the T-square. This post will give you an opportunity, Miriam, to think on these matters. At the conclusion of my next post I shall ask you some questions -- not as a test, but to see if we can establish a dialogue.
You can then decide if you wish to continue this 'reading'.
blessings
shantana
The word 'gestalt' suggests a 'whole' that is greater than the sum of its parts. And clearly, astrology looks at a person not just as an assemblage of cells, organs, emotions and thoughts, but as a totality that is greater than anything of these things we can call 'mine'.
Many people seem to place an enormous importance on their bodies, but scientists tell us that our DNA differs from that of the primates by a very small percentage - so our biological parts must be almost identical. The point is: somehow, the arrangement or pattern of our parts has allowed us humans to take a gigantic evolutionary leap beyond the primates.
So we will start by examining the gestalt or pattern of Miriam's chart. In this first glimpse, the identity of the individual planets is not important; we examine Miriam's pattern to see how she fits into the still larger pattern of the universe - and fit she must. After all, we and our universe are constructed of the 'same stuff'.
http://groups.msn.com/astrolcabala/miri ... PhotoID=21
First we will look for some emphasis of a hemisphere or a quadrant. In Miriam's chart, for example, we find seven of her ten planets in the upper hemisphere - in the light of day. Only three are below - in the arena of the subconscious mind. We might assume then that she is very self-aware. We might question how good a connection she has to her own subconscious feelings and motivations - but we will leave that for the moment.
We find eight of Miriam's planets are in the Western hemisphere, so she may be a counter-puncher, waiting for life to bring her a challenge to wich she can respond. We also note that her first house (the Self) is empty - (it is not empowered by any planets). I am not suggesting that a Leo Sun, with Sagittairus Rising, could not have a personality, but only that her personality is not be a major tool in Miriam's arsenal.
Finally, the entire Spring Quadrant is empty, and this (near) open trine tempts us to identify her gestalt or pattern as an 'open angle pattern. These people are known to be very dynamic and active, but tempting as this definition is, once we examine her aspects it becomes clear that Miriam's gestalt is really a See-saw; she has three planets in the below, balancing the seven in the above!
Miriam's See-saw
One quick and dirty way to begin an analysis of any pattern is to look at the charts of some well known persons. I may have mentioned before that both president Richard Nixon and the philosopher Krishnamurti had See-saw patterns. President Nixon had three planets above, in the ninth, tenth and eleventh houses. Nixon, then, saw the area around the M.C. as a political arena. He was a great manipulator, able to balance one faction against another. But despite the fact that Saturn was his most elevated planet - his own ego (seemingly) caused him (finally) to self-destruct.,
http://groups.msn.com/astrolcabala/miri ... PhotoID=23
Krishnamurti also had three planets in the above and seven below, but his philosophy balanced the unity of the universe (the above) against the pain and self-doubts, the joys or sorrows, found in our subconscious nature in the below. His tool for this balancing act was meditation. And (we ask), what is it that gets balanced?
Alchemy, Astrology, Buddhism and Yoga zall teach us that we must learn to balance the pairs of opposites - right and left, hot and cold, love and hate, fear and confidence, male and female and etc,. And these must also be balanced with the Above or with the planetary powers, in order to form a harmonious whole. And what is 'whole' is our personality -- including our 'soul' (whatever that means).
And a good astrologer, in my opinion, needs to see INTO the meaning of our common symbols. For example, the symbol for Earth is a square or a cross, representing a well-balanced manifested results. And we should recognize that the symbol of the cross is found in the center of the outer circle of our charts. So, while our task seems clear enough to our conscious mind, it is an unfortunate truth that -- by definition, our subconscious nature is NOT accessible to our self-conscious awareness. Therefore we do not SEE the imbalances in our own nature. (These may be readily apparent to our friends and relatives, but that is another story).
Adding the Planets
http://groups.msn.com/astrolcabala/miri ... PhotoID=22
When we look at the planets involved in each sign and location, we find clues to the exact meaning of Miriam's See-saw. For example, Libra is the traditional sign of harmony and balance, and we find Uranus and Pluto in Libra. Further, Uranus - the planet which symbolizes our urge to move beyond the limits of the social planets and beyond our old mores, is also Miriam's most elevated planet, and is in opposition to Moon. Finally, Uranus establishes one end of Miriam's See-saw and her Moon conjunct Jupiter establishes the other end. So Saturn, at the mid-point , is acting as the release of this tension.
This establishes Miriam's Moon, the principle of connectedness, as playing a most important role in Miriam's gestalt. The Moon remains, of course, secondary to the Sun -- but it is the Moon which carries out the Sun's purpose.
Our Next Post
We now have the background to begin a more detailed analysis of Miriam's chart -- based on the pattern of the See-saw and the lesser pattern of the T-square. This post will give you an opportunity, Miriam, to think on these matters. At the conclusion of my next post I shall ask you some questions -- not as a test, but to see if we can establish a dialogue.
You can then decide if you wish to continue this 'reading'.
blessings
shantana
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morton tolson
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:00 pm
Reading for Miriam
Miriam's Reading
The major axis of Miriam's See-saw clearly runs from the ninth-tenth houses to the fourth and the fifth, with Saturn - although it is in the Above, acting as the fulcrum or balance point. And in the following illustration we can see how nicely Miriam's T-square focuses the energy of that See-saw.
http://groups.msn.com/astrolcabala/miri ... PhotoID=24
Back in Medieval times, in the imagination of the public, Saturn was thought to be a 'malefic' or evil influence; quite a few people (including some astrologers) still harbor that prejudice. But Key 21 of the Tarot illustrates the views of ancient Wisdom -- as found in the Cabala, in Yoga and in Buddhism. In fact, in Buddhism, this principle of perfect balance is called Nirvana.
So the World Key shows Saturn as the principle of focus, limitation and discrimination, achieving a perfect balance in the World; it does this by eliminating all that is unrelated to your Real goals, Miriam. Thus, through life's experiences, Satrun helps you to identify and eliminate everything that does NOT work for you.
This Key shows a fine balance between the Above and the Below (the female and male principles in your Life), and how the conflicting energies on the Right hand and the Left hand can be put to the most useful purpose.
Saturn as the Key to your Life
In your chart, Saturn is square (90 deg.) to both ends of the Uranus to Moon/Jupiter oppostion. It is thus the release point for that polarity - but it is also a call for action because this requires a repolarization - a refocus, of both you and your life.
Uranus represents change and upheaval; it is an urge from Above to go beyond any limitations. It is the role of Saturn, then, to give focus and direction to that energy. Both Jupiter and the Moon are protectors of the old status quo. The Moon or Habit Mind protects and nourishes you as an individual; Jupiter, by connecting you with the circle of the family and home (the Fourth House) helps you to expand and grow, but in a larger social circle. And, to do this it looks for Laws and codes of ethics that will provide a firm base for your love and generosity.
These principles, then, will be involved whenever you deal with others who are outside your immediate family circle.
Saturn, located in Cancer, is basically polarized to preserve and advance your integration within family and within society. In other words, it is a 'social planet' and must try to find a way to focus the upsetting energies flooding in from Uranus. Saturn, you can be sure, will not throw the baby out with the bath water. Further, its location in the seventh house of marriage and partnership, suggests that the release (solution) of the conflict of Uranus opposite the Moon and Jupiter will always require you to find some way to participate more fully in the Social World.
The solution, then, might be to expand your concept of 'family' to include ALL people, and since Uranus is co-ruler (with Saturn) of Aquarius, you personally should have find difficulty in embracing a society in which all men and women are REALLY brothers and sisters. This, in fact, does seem to represent your own true vision.
The Activation of Your T-Square
By including the transiting Sun in the illustration, I wanted to emphasize that the T-square is a yearly 'aggravation' - which helps to explain why the T-square so often assures success. (I am thinking, here, of Martin Luther King, who was also 'driven' by a T-square).
Your 'year' begins with T. Sun activating the First Planet (Jupiter in Aries) in the Cardinal T-square. Aries represents your need to establish your SELF as an individual, and then explore whatever limitations exist in the scope of your personal reach. You really ARE driven! And, of course, T. Sun is simultaneously in opposition to natal Uranus; therefore, in your search for self-identity you are likely to really resent anything you susupect is an opposition to your personal goals!
The T. Sun next contacts Saturn in Cancer, and we have already suggested how Saturn will wish to preserve (Cancer) the old, while focusing on finding wider horizons (square to Uranus). These squares,whch are to both ends of the opposition, can only create a mid-point 'balance' by REPOLARISING your concept of Who you Are and of your Role in Life.
Do not under-estimate the influence of Uranus in Libra. For the generation in Power (who had won WWII, your grandparents and parents, and also sired you), T. Uranus during its 8 year stay in Libra saw that divorice now became acceptable; even more: people were suddenly able to live together, for the first time, openly, whether married or not! (Wow! And LOL).
Your 'year' of the T-Square ends in the fall when T. Sun contacts natal Uranus, forcing still another re-evaluation of all that has gone before during the spring and summer. This re-evalution will, of course, not totally end until Winter - when T.Sun contacts first Neptune and then your Ascendant - both in Sagittarius.
In my next post I will try to bring your Moon into this equation, and show how it works with your Sun in Leo. But first I need some clear feedback, and a beginning dialogue with you. Can you relate to what is in this post? And if so, how have these 'contacts' and formations worked this far in your daily life?
And, more importantly, how has your conception of your own self expanded and grown during your life?
Blessings
Shantana
The major axis of Miriam's See-saw clearly runs from the ninth-tenth houses to the fourth and the fifth, with Saturn - although it is in the Above, acting as the fulcrum or balance point. And in the following illustration we can see how nicely Miriam's T-square focuses the energy of that See-saw.
http://groups.msn.com/astrolcabala/miri ... PhotoID=24
Back in Medieval times, in the imagination of the public, Saturn was thought to be a 'malefic' or evil influence; quite a few people (including some astrologers) still harbor that prejudice. But Key 21 of the Tarot illustrates the views of ancient Wisdom -- as found in the Cabala, in Yoga and in Buddhism. In fact, in Buddhism, this principle of perfect balance is called Nirvana.
So the World Key shows Saturn as the principle of focus, limitation and discrimination, achieving a perfect balance in the World; it does this by eliminating all that is unrelated to your Real goals, Miriam. Thus, through life's experiences, Satrun helps you to identify and eliminate everything that does NOT work for you.
This Key shows a fine balance between the Above and the Below (the female and male principles in your Life), and how the conflicting energies on the Right hand and the Left hand can be put to the most useful purpose.
Saturn as the Key to your Life
In your chart, Saturn is square (90 deg.) to both ends of the Uranus to Moon/Jupiter oppostion. It is thus the release point for that polarity - but it is also a call for action because this requires a repolarization - a refocus, of both you and your life.
Uranus represents change and upheaval; it is an urge from Above to go beyond any limitations. It is the role of Saturn, then, to give focus and direction to that energy. Both Jupiter and the Moon are protectors of the old status quo. The Moon or Habit Mind protects and nourishes you as an individual; Jupiter, by connecting you with the circle of the family and home (the Fourth House) helps you to expand and grow, but in a larger social circle. And, to do this it looks for Laws and codes of ethics that will provide a firm base for your love and generosity.
These principles, then, will be involved whenever you deal with others who are outside your immediate family circle.
Saturn, located in Cancer, is basically polarized to preserve and advance your integration within family and within society. In other words, it is a 'social planet' and must try to find a way to focus the upsetting energies flooding in from Uranus. Saturn, you can be sure, will not throw the baby out with the bath water. Further, its location in the seventh house of marriage and partnership, suggests that the release (solution) of the conflict of Uranus opposite the Moon and Jupiter will always require you to find some way to participate more fully in the Social World.
The solution, then, might be to expand your concept of 'family' to include ALL people, and since Uranus is co-ruler (with Saturn) of Aquarius, you personally should have find difficulty in embracing a society in which all men and women are REALLY brothers and sisters. This, in fact, does seem to represent your own true vision.
The Activation of Your T-Square
By including the transiting Sun in the illustration, I wanted to emphasize that the T-square is a yearly 'aggravation' - which helps to explain why the T-square so often assures success. (I am thinking, here, of Martin Luther King, who was also 'driven' by a T-square).
Your 'year' begins with T. Sun activating the First Planet (Jupiter in Aries) in the Cardinal T-square. Aries represents your need to establish your SELF as an individual, and then explore whatever limitations exist in the scope of your personal reach. You really ARE driven! And, of course, T. Sun is simultaneously in opposition to natal Uranus; therefore, in your search for self-identity you are likely to really resent anything you susupect is an opposition to your personal goals!
The T. Sun next contacts Saturn in Cancer, and we have already suggested how Saturn will wish to preserve (Cancer) the old, while focusing on finding wider horizons (square to Uranus). These squares,whch are to both ends of the opposition, can only create a mid-point 'balance' by REPOLARISING your concept of Who you Are and of your Role in Life.
Do not under-estimate the influence of Uranus in Libra. For the generation in Power (who had won WWII, your grandparents and parents, and also sired you), T. Uranus during its 8 year stay in Libra saw that divorice now became acceptable; even more: people were suddenly able to live together, for the first time, openly, whether married or not! (Wow! And LOL).
Your 'year' of the T-Square ends in the fall when T. Sun contacts natal Uranus, forcing still another re-evaluation of all that has gone before during the spring and summer. This re-evalution will, of course, not totally end until Winter - when T.Sun contacts first Neptune and then your Ascendant - both in Sagittarius.
In my next post I will try to bring your Moon into this equation, and show how it works with your Sun in Leo. But first I need some clear feedback, and a beginning dialogue with you. Can you relate to what is in this post? And if so, how have these 'contacts' and formations worked this far in your daily life?
And, more importantly, how has your conception of your own self expanded and grown during your life?
Blessings
Shantana
Thank you Shantana, I appreciate you taking the time and doing this for me. What you said is true. And I AM driven but I feel like something keeps holding me back, and would this have something to do with Mars conjunction to my SN? I know, my NN in 11th and in Scorpio, would do a world of good for me to go out and join some groups, and also to let go of things that are no good, old feelings, things from the past that have no bearing on me... but I find that to be rather difficult. The SN is poisonous as far as I am concerned, and with Mars conjunction to it, doesn't help matters. This is why I keep having these feelings, where as I KNOW I must move on and forget about those who were no good for me. So how do I do that? How do I get past this? Its obvious I have karma to balance, with most of my planets in water houses, including Chiron and Mars conjunction to my SN. How do I solve this problem?
Miriam
Miriam
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morton tolson
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:00 pm
Thanks for Responding, Miriam
But I cannot answer your questions. Your response shows that you see a chart in terms of south nodes and north nodes, and Chiron, and that is fine, if it works for you.
My 'reading' thus far suggested that our unconscious habit patterns create our miseries as we get older. I suggested that Saturn was both the blessing and solution in your chart. Apparently I did not succeed in making my points.
For example, I suggested -- in my first post, that everyone creates the quality of their life.
I understand that these concepts are foreign to the great majority of astrologers. But -- these concepts fit nicely with what ancient wisdom tells us, and also what modern depth psychology tells us.
I am not offended if this makes no sense to you, and I DO hope some other astrologer who believes that the right answers can be found in nodes and asteroids, can give you a satisfactory answer.
I cannot.
Hey! Goodby and GOODLUCK!!!
mort
My 'reading' thus far suggested that our unconscious habit patterns create our miseries as we get older. I suggested that Saturn was both the blessing and solution in your chart. Apparently I did not succeed in making my points.
For example, I suggested -- in my first post, that everyone creates the quality of their life.
I understand that these concepts are foreign to the great majority of astrologers. But -- these concepts fit nicely with what ancient wisdom tells us, and also what modern depth psychology tells us.
I am not offended if this makes no sense to you, and I DO hope some other astrologer who believes that the right answers can be found in nodes and asteroids, can give you a satisfactory answer.
I cannot.
Hey! Goodby and GOODLUCK!!!
mort
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