Hi all,
This is a potentially "explosive" topic and I really apologise in advance. What I really want to discuss today is about the opinions my friends have on my new tarot reading hobby.
Apparently, they are against it because they feel that the cards have sort of "controlled" my life. I have tried explaining to them about this, that the cards only give some guidelines as to where to go. The analogy I like to use is about the road with a hole. If there is a road with a hole and the tarot tells me not to go there, then I won't, and it's for the better. But with no guidance at all, I might have fallen into it.
This is the main idea among my circle of friends, thus causing me to have less "subjects" for practice as most of my friends do not wish me to read the cards for them. I find it really unfortunate that perhaps they are more grounded towards "logical" part of thinking without any thought for the spiritual/paranormal part of life.
Any thoughts about this issue?
Criticism Against Tarot
Moderators: eye_of_tiger, shalimar123, TarotModerator
It seems to me like your friends just don't understand how it works, and they're making assumptions based on their preconceptions regarding Tarot. Tarot's depiction has always been portrayed as a fortune-telling device in movies and television, which is just a caricature of what its real purpose is -- wisdom. But if that's all your friends have to make their judgments, then it's no wonder. So your friends are pretty blameless for their assumptions that Tarot consumes your choices in that sense -- they've been mislead from the start so they don't know how to be receptive.
Plus - I have a feeling that their nagging at you for your choices regarding Tarot really come from a place of concern (for you) and discomfort (for them).
Don't feel too bad your friends don't want readings -- I generally only do my own readings too. It's hard to read for friends. I don't have any friends who are really receptive to this either, not the way I am, and I've been reading for ten years. So don't feel bad =) You're alone, but you're not, know what I mean?
I think the reason my friends aren't open to it is the same as your situation -- just a lack of reception to the cards themselves, and their overall use, their purpose as a tool for wisdom. People confuse that with the ability to read the future -- people expect concrete answers when they are unaware of how this is intended to work. Like you said, it's meant to serve as a guideline.
Plus, I really think a person can't be receptive to it until they've really dived into Tarot on their own terms.
However, let it be known that the cards don't make the choices for you. You know that. If your friends are really being jerks about telling you what to do when it comes to Tarot, don't take it personally. You have no need to defend yourself -- from what I can see you know what you're doing and you have no ill intent. Quite the opposite, as you clearly want to use Tarot to help everyone out in clearing their paths. That's ideal, and you don't need to defend that. It stands on its own.
It would be nice to believe that we can get our friends to accept this the way we do -- but I know how long it took me to get where I am, and it wasn't forced. No one truly embraces anything when they're forced to do so.
So just hold out -- maybe keep your Tarot private and allow your friends to bring it up -- and don't stop reading. You know what you're doing
Take care
Plus - I have a feeling that their nagging at you for your choices regarding Tarot really come from a place of concern (for you) and discomfort (for them).
Don't feel too bad your friends don't want readings -- I generally only do my own readings too. It's hard to read for friends. I don't have any friends who are really receptive to this either, not the way I am, and I've been reading for ten years. So don't feel bad =) You're alone, but you're not, know what I mean?
I think the reason my friends aren't open to it is the same as your situation -- just a lack of reception to the cards themselves, and their overall use, their purpose as a tool for wisdom. People confuse that with the ability to read the future -- people expect concrete answers when they are unaware of how this is intended to work. Like you said, it's meant to serve as a guideline.
Plus, I really think a person can't be receptive to it until they've really dived into Tarot on their own terms.
However, let it be known that the cards don't make the choices for you. You know that. If your friends are really being jerks about telling you what to do when it comes to Tarot, don't take it personally. You have no need to defend yourself -- from what I can see you know what you're doing and you have no ill intent. Quite the opposite, as you clearly want to use Tarot to help everyone out in clearing their paths. That's ideal, and you don't need to defend that. It stands on its own.
It would be nice to believe that we can get our friends to accept this the way we do -- but I know how long it took me to get where I am, and it wasn't forced. No one truly embraces anything when they're forced to do so.
So just hold out -- maybe keep your Tarot private and allow your friends to bring it up -- and don't stop reading. You know what you're doing
Take care
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Payewacker
- Posts: 1322
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:01 am
Hi Guys,
You know, all your allegories and what not, is a mere shot in the dark!
People are against Tarot for a number of reasons, principally, being a religious stance or attitude. Furthermore, people have a preconceived idea of the "Gypsy" link.
Thus, inevitably we are "socialised" as being SCARY, MYSTIC AND WIERD!!! Of wich many of us are!! But, thank God, we are normal people save for the "spooky one's".
The most important fact to remeber is that we do divination, and as such, is a bunch of wierdo's, no matter what you think, considered by anyone!
When reading cards for a Qeurant, have a look see at how they shake. People ae scared to see the future. They are scared of Tarot readers.
Please? reading for yourself for ten years is not much of an accomplishment, but a great way of practising your skills. Now, you should try to move on and read the cards for others no matter how bad it may be!
In this sense, expect people to be biased, as they have no practicall knowledge of the cards as we have.
So, critisicm, you will always have, that's the way it will be.
Blessed be.
You know, all your allegories and what not, is a mere shot in the dark!
People are against Tarot for a number of reasons, principally, being a religious stance or attitude. Furthermore, people have a preconceived idea of the "Gypsy" link.
Thus, inevitably we are "socialised" as being SCARY, MYSTIC AND WIERD!!! Of wich many of us are!! But, thank God, we are normal people save for the "spooky one's".
The most important fact to remeber is that we do divination, and as such, is a bunch of wierdo's, no matter what you think, considered by anyone!
When reading cards for a Qeurant, have a look see at how they shake. People ae scared to see the future. They are scared of Tarot readers.
Please? reading for yourself for ten years is not much of an accomplishment, but a great way of practising your skills. Now, you should try to move on and read the cards for others no matter how bad it may be!
In this sense, expect people to be biased, as they have no practicall knowledge of the cards as we have.
So, critisicm, you will always have, that's the way it will be.
Blessed be.
Do as you want, Harm none!
"Please? reading for yourself for ten years is not much of an accomplishment"
Was that comment really necessary?
Nothing like knocking somebody down before building them back up, am I right?
You could've answered these questions without using your answers as a slight to me. But if that's what it takes to make you feel safe in your approach...
Was that comment really necessary?
Nothing like knocking somebody down before building them back up, am I right?
You could've answered these questions without using your answers as a slight to me. But if that's what it takes to make you feel safe in your approach...
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Payewacker
- Posts: 1322
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:01 am
Hi otato,
I think my comment is totally appropriate! There's no such thing as trying to break you down. In fact, if you continue only reading for yourself, you will never reach that which you may want to acheive reading Tarot. Tarot is such a vast field of information. You as a "reader" can gain a lot more self-confidence, knowledge have a majestic spiritual benefit as well.
If you think I was a bit rude, so be it. Sometimes it's needed to get someone going on enjoying greater things in life! By not being rude, but plainly giving them a kick on the behind!
Hugz.
PW
I think my comment is totally appropriate! There's no such thing as trying to break you down. In fact, if you continue only reading for yourself, you will never reach that which you may want to acheive reading Tarot. Tarot is such a vast field of information. You as a "reader" can gain a lot more self-confidence, knowledge have a majestic spiritual benefit as well.
If you think I was a bit rude, so be it. Sometimes it's needed to get someone going on enjoying greater things in life! By not being rude, but plainly giving them a kick on the behind!
Hugz.
PW
Do as you want, Harm none!
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Rhutobello
- Posts: 10724
- Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:39 pm
NO! NO! This comment was NOT necessary...Not at all!otato wrote:"Please? reading for yourself for ten years is not much of an accomplishment"
Was that comment really necessary?
From Ancient time Tarot have been seen as something Mystic, many times as something Dark, that can destroy you if you don't take care.
I think also quiet a few Readers also have fueled up under this superstition, in order to get a more mystical image.
This is of course not true, and the only way to fight it is to do enlightenment, instead of attack or down grading.
Tarot is a TOOL, that have to be learned to be used just like any other tools.
It will be your ability to handle this tool, which will decide how good Tarot Reader you will be.
Just like a Hammer, can Tarot be bought by everyone, but few manage to be a master carpenter, so also with Tarot.
IMHO will a Tarot deck in a newbie's hand be nothing more then a deck of card with a lot of pictures.
Many start to put out their first spread at once, then take the "Dummy" that followed, and predict havoc on family and friends.
A lot will have unfaithful partners, have an early death, get or loose a lot of money and so on....which of course is crap...it is just like the one who have go a hammer start to build his first cottage...it will fall.
Tarot is the tool....just like the carpenter...the wielder need to have ability for the trade. He/she need to have the ability to connect to other people...he/she need to have an open mind...and a good life experience are not out of the way. If you yourself have experienced a lot in your life, then you will understand the question much better, and you can decipher the cards to a higher degree.
When it comes to Read for oneself.
There is a big Problem, we know our longings, we know our fears, and our unconscious mind will try to fit this knowledge into the cards, and then we fail....we try to fit the terrain to the map and not vice versa.
The same might be the case when we read for family members and good friends....we might let our knowledge color our reading.
With all sort of Readings, that be Tarot, Psychic,Astrology you name it, there is a danger....to be hooked.
I have this to say;
Our life is about decisions in every second of the day.
If we take the challenge, take the decision and find the result, then we learn and grow.
IF WE ON THE OTHER HAND start to ask for advice on many of our obstacles, then we start to lower our own self security, we start to be less able to take speedy decisions, we try to make other solve our own problems, and we stagnate.
So every Reading shall only be taken for what it is...a path..that you can choose to follow...or forget.
A Reading can never give you a finish solution...can't give you a partner, can't give you money, can't make you win in lottery, only You by your own action can do that.
So to your friends, it is up to you how you educate them, how much you will be a mystic, or how much you will be a normal guy with a hang to learn about tarot.
Whatever you choose...I hope you will have many many years with good Tarot experiences....it only takes your effort
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Rhutobello
- Posts: 10724
- Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:39 pm
In my opinion are you wrong.Payewacker wrote:Hi otato,
If you think I was a bit rude, so be it. Sometimes it's needed to get someone going on enjoying greater things in life! By not being rude, but plainly giving them a kick on the behind!
Hugz.
PW
Discussions are all about exchange of information.
When we believe in a thing, then we believe we own the truth...we don't....and that goes also for me.
With this in the back of our head, we shall approach discussion with more respect.
You can never win a discussion by acting cruel, you are then closing down any door that might have been open for well founded arguments.
People who read your statements will remember the cruelty, and not the more important thing....your belief.
So always let your opinion speak for you...never attack...to attack is the same thing as loosing...because you feel your arguments aren't strong enough, then it is always better to withdraw, or not attend, but listen and learn.
I give otato my excuse.
I don't know. Some days the readings come out perfectly great, and some are indecipherable. I am getting a feeling that it might have something to do with the "energy" of the person asking the question, whether it be myself or my friends. Perhaps if this "energy" is strong, i.e. maybe the person has gone through a lot of hardship, then the tarot might be able to pick it up and give a clearer solution.Rhutobello wrote: When it comes to Read for oneself.
There is a big Problem, we know our longings, we know our fears, and our unconscious mind will try to fit this knowledge into the cards, and then we fail....we try to fit the terrain to the map and not vice versa.
The same might be the case when we read for family members and good friends....we might let our knowledge color our reading.
With all sort of Readings, that be Tarot, Psychic,Astrology you name it, there is a danger....to be hooked.
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Payewacker
- Posts: 1322
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:01 am
Hi Guys.
I think this topic and my comment was blown totally out of proportion. If you feel offended, yes then I do apoligise!
Rather let me get in here and explain my true intent and approach. As you all know, that no person's perception of anything is 100% correct or 100% incorrect.
So, when you sit reading for yourself all the time, you won't get to spread your wings wider and gain more confidence! I have done readings where the cards are really, realy bad. Yet, in these situations you tell your Querant what the cards are telling you, with your intuition you blend the pchycic with real life. After this, you can give your querant advise of how to avoid the bad situation. Even so, with bad cards, I gather them again and do a second lay. Most of the times, it tells the same story.
So, let me the refrase what I said, and you can understand my comment:
It is at times neccesary to give a new reader, or a inexperienced reader a "gentle shove", to exploreall the lessons to be taught from Tarot.
Blessed be
I think this topic and my comment was blown totally out of proportion. If you feel offended, yes then I do apoligise!
Rather let me get in here and explain my true intent and approach. As you all know, that no person's perception of anything is 100% correct or 100% incorrect.
So, when you sit reading for yourself all the time, you won't get to spread your wings wider and gain more confidence! I have done readings where the cards are really, realy bad. Yet, in these situations you tell your Querant what the cards are telling you, with your intuition you blend the pchycic with real life. After this, you can give your querant advise of how to avoid the bad situation. Even so, with bad cards, I gather them again and do a second lay. Most of the times, it tells the same story.
So, let me the refrase what I said, and you can understand my comment:
It is at times neccesary to give a new reader, or a inexperienced reader a "gentle shove", to exploreall the lessons to be taught from Tarot.
Blessed be
Do as you want, Harm none!
-
Rhutobello
- Posts: 10724
- Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:39 pm
I agree...you shall be an experienced reader to have any value from it.Payewacker wrote: So, when you sit reading for yourself all the time, you won't get to spread your wings wider and gain more confidence!
I don't deny that anyone can read a spread for themselves, and find that it fit.
The question is though....did you not use your own knowledge to interpret the cards....did you just put it down, and then took that interpretation..or did you do several layout to find the right cards?
You might, if you aren't confident in any trade, create a false imagination of own value in the trade....it is just when you start to read for other that you will see if your value is for other to accept.
But take me right....
If you use your card on daily basis, and find that they help you in your life....then that it is GREAT...because it has a big value for YOU...and that is also very important
Payewacker - It's not that I feel offended... it's that you offended me. Take some responsibility for how you use your words -- don't just lay the blame on how people interpret them.
I do not accept your apology because it's quite clear you don't think you said anything hurtful... you just think I took it the wrong way. My sister says the same thing when she is offensive... "I'm sorry if you feel like I offended you." This lays the blame on how the words are viewed, not how the words were used in the first place.
I didn't take anything the wrong way. You did say something hurtful there.
Yes, no person's perception of anything is 100% correct or incorrect, that's true. However, that reaffirms my point that your viewpoint on reading one's own cards isn't necessarily a hundred percent correct either.
So let's not throw stones here.
The person who started this thread was expressing that he/she wasn't comfortable with reading for other people. I see nothing wrong with that. I see nothing wrong with approaching Tarot for the sake of Oneself. We are not obligated to read for other people, as that is free will, and free will is ours for the taking. Furthermore, Tarot can be approached as an Inward Journey just as successfully as an Outward Journey.
In my +ten years of experience with Tarot -- the ten years you said weren't that much of an accomplishment -- I've been able to figure out how to apply Tarot to myself. I would argue that this is a HUGE accomplishment, and one that needs to come before applying Tarot to others.
I'm not saying don't read for other people. I'm saying it's not a requirement to read for others in order to be skilled in the cards.
You can't kick someone in the behind and expect them not to react in anger. First you called it a kick in the behind, now you're calling it a gentle shove. You can't realize how snarky that comment was for me to read, as you completely downplayed my experience with the cards in order to further propel your perspective. It was uncalled for.
All that said, let me say that again that just because I don't accept your apology doesn't mean I don't forgive you. I totally do. We only need to pay for every mistake once, and my giving you food for thought appeases my need for any further apologies from you. You are probably a really great person and we just happened to get off on the wrong foot here. I just felt the need to stress how important it is that we are careful with our words -- whether it be on the internet or in real life.
I do appreciate that you took the time and tried to clarify your viewpoint and appease the situation. It didn't go unnoticed to me, and at this point it's water under the bridge. But maybe if you'd like to continue this debate with me, we should do it via private messaging, as we seem to be diverting all the attention away from the original post of this thread.
Peace
I do not accept your apology because it's quite clear you don't think you said anything hurtful... you just think I took it the wrong way. My sister says the same thing when she is offensive... "I'm sorry if you feel like I offended you." This lays the blame on how the words are viewed, not how the words were used in the first place.
I didn't take anything the wrong way. You did say something hurtful there.
Yes, no person's perception of anything is 100% correct or incorrect, that's true. However, that reaffirms my point that your viewpoint on reading one's own cards isn't necessarily a hundred percent correct either.
So let's not throw stones here.
The person who started this thread was expressing that he/she wasn't comfortable with reading for other people. I see nothing wrong with that. I see nothing wrong with approaching Tarot for the sake of Oneself. We are not obligated to read for other people, as that is free will, and free will is ours for the taking. Furthermore, Tarot can be approached as an Inward Journey just as successfully as an Outward Journey.
In my +ten years of experience with Tarot -- the ten years you said weren't that much of an accomplishment -- I've been able to figure out how to apply Tarot to myself. I would argue that this is a HUGE accomplishment, and one that needs to come before applying Tarot to others.
I'm not saying don't read for other people. I'm saying it's not a requirement to read for others in order to be skilled in the cards.
You can't kick someone in the behind and expect them not to react in anger. First you called it a kick in the behind, now you're calling it a gentle shove. You can't realize how snarky that comment was for me to read, as you completely downplayed my experience with the cards in order to further propel your perspective. It was uncalled for.
All that said, let me say that again that just because I don't accept your apology doesn't mean I don't forgive you. I totally do. We only need to pay for every mistake once, and my giving you food for thought appeases my need for any further apologies from you. You are probably a really great person and we just happened to get off on the wrong foot here. I just felt the need to stress how important it is that we are careful with our words -- whether it be on the internet or in real life.
I do appreciate that you took the time and tried to clarify your viewpoint and appease the situation. It didn't go unnoticed to me, and at this point it's water under the bridge. But maybe if you'd like to continue this debate with me, we should do it via private messaging, as we seem to be diverting all the attention away from the original post of this thread.
Peace
Well, if you're comfortable with it Renjer, then I'd suggest try helping with interpretations for others via this board, or other internet forums involving Tarot. You might be surprised by your accuracy -- as I have been. If your friends aren't receptive, then don't waste your energy.
I have a feeling that if you hold true to your own approach toward Tarot, keeping it private and personal and true to yourself, you might find that some day one of those friends who had such tunnel-vision about this could surprise you and ask for a reading.
Just hold out -- and keep embracing Tarot on your terms. No one else's, not even mine.
I have a feeling that if you hold true to your own approach toward Tarot, keeping it private and personal and true to yourself, you might find that some day one of those friends who had such tunnel-vision about this could surprise you and ask for a reading.
Just hold out -- and keep embracing Tarot on your terms. No one else's, not even mine.
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